Guy in the shop going through 10+ tips for 30 lb wire

[Masher Mfg]

This is directed towards fab shop workers or those that go through at least 30 lb wire a month. I need to control consumable use and down time. What sort of tip life are you guys getting.

I'm now managing a fab shop and have a guy that is going through .035 MIG tips at the rate of 10+ tips per 30 lb wire. He has been welding for 15 years and sees nothing wrong with that rate. ( the material is 12G to 1/4" steel ) He also has the tip protruding 1/2" beyond the gas nozzle.

When I weld, the tip is 1/8" inside the nozzle to prevent the tip from contacting the work and melting it.

[crawler]

This is directed towards fab shop workers or those that go through at least 30 lb wire a month. I need to control consumable use and down time. What sort of tip life are you guys getting.

I'm now managing a fab shop and have a guy that is going through .035 MIG tips at the rate of 10+ tips per 30 lb wire. He has been welding for 15 years and sees nothing wrong with that rate. ( the material is 12G to 1/4" steel ) He also has the tip protruding 1/2" beyond the gas nozzle.

When I weld, the tip is 1/8" inside the nozzle to prevent the tip from contacting the work and melting it.

I don't see why he would want the contact tip to protrude 1/2" past the nozzle. I'd think he'd want it to be flush or 1/8" recessed if he/she is doing spray transfer.

[Spook2]

This is directed towards fab shop workers or those that go through at least 30 lb wire a month. I need to control consumable use and down time. What sort of tip life are you guys getting.

I'm now managing a fab shop and have a guy that is going through .035 MIG tips at the rate of 10+ tips per 30 lb wire. He has been welding for 15 years and sees nothing wrong with that rate. ( the material is 12G to 1/4" steel ) He also has the tip protruding 1/2" beyond the gas nozzle.

When I weld, the tip is 1/8" inside the nozzle to prevent the tip from contacting the work and melting it.



My guys burn through about 1 tip per 60# spool so anywhere from 2-4 per day depending on the job.

[Rocky D]

The tip should br flush with the end of the nozzle....1/8" setback is for spray arc. I have run 1000's of # of wire and never used contact tips at that rate. Now if he's using knurled drive rolls, I can understand it. Or if there is too much pressure on the wire straightener, that could do it too...if there even is one on the feeder. :confused: Also I think the only reason to have the tip out that far, is welding a fillet considerably less than 90°, like a "V".
Are we talkin MIG or fluxcore, here?

[Mr Meck]

I have not changed a tip in since... Uh,... That would be about 10 60lb rolls of 045 and that was to change from .035 wire to .045 on the wire feeder, So I'm thinking you should give him a new tip the first Monday of every month, and he can supply the rest.:cool:

[Sully2]

This is directed towards fab shop workers or those that go through at least 30 lb wire a month. I need to control consumable use and down time. What sort of tip life are you guys getting.

I'm now managing a fab shop and have a guy that is going through .035 MIG tips at the rate of 10+ tips per 30 lb wire. He has been welding for 15 years and sees nothing wrong with that rate. ( the material is 12G to 1/4" steel ) He also has the tip protruding 1/2" beyond the gas nozzle.

When I weld, the tip is 1/8" inside the nozzle to prevent the tip from contacting the work and melting it.

He is using them FAR beyond the "excessive" rate. He needs "MIG welding 101"

[SundownIII]

Masher Mfg,

You sure he's not just selling the extra tips back to a LWS for beer money?;)

He may have been Mig welding for 15 years, but he hasn't been "properly" Mig welding for long. Can't imagine why he feels he needs a 1/2" stickout.

Just my .02

[Some Creep]

Do you watch him weld or check the tips he's throwing away to see what the problem is? I'd start there. Is he doing something the other guys aren't doing, some special material or position unique to him alone?

[hankj]

My guys burn through about 1 tip per 60# spool so anywhere from 2-4 per day depending on the job.

Good to hear from you! Done any more of those giant welds lately?

Hank

[hankj]

I have never understood why some folk whack MIG gun tips at the rates reported here! I got a pack of 10 .030 tips whan I started welding in 2003, and I still have 7 left! And, of the three I've used, one got destroyed the first time I tried flux-core.

Granted, I ain't doin' production, but I've run a lot of wire in the last 4 years!

Hank

[Rocky D]

Do you watch him weld or check the tips he's throwing away to see what the problem is? I'd start there. Is he doing something the other guys aren't doing, some special material or position unique to him alone?
Excellent counsel, Creep...yeah take a piece of wire and check the tip for sloppiness.

[Masher Mfg]

Thanks everyone.

The guy claims he needs the 1/2" tip stick out so he can see the puddle. The material is regular steel welded in flat and occasional vertical down. The gas is regular C 25. The welds are consistent and smooth.

He is the primary welder but I have another guy coming on line who is more apt to welding properly.

The tip eater also complains the nozzle holder will wear out because I am making it flush and he is pushing it back. The other claim is a flush or set back tip will cause the nozzle to burn up because it sparks against the work. There is a slight truth to the nozzle sparking if the spatter isn't cleaned, a 1/2 tip stick out would solve that at a greater expense. Oh yea, the first response was " I'm not the only person using the welder."

Now that we are down to 1 new tip and 2 very good used, I think I'll be a bit slow in releasing tips to the floor. Will get the old tips for inspection. He seems to think ~ $ .70 per tip is nothing, I'm interested in the .70 and the down time to change it.

BTW, I got my then year old Snap On ( CK Systematics) MIG in 86, it ran countless rolls of .030 wire in a automotive repair / race car build enviroment. I've probably burnt 5 tips in that time, mostly due to spatter build up from overhead welding.

[Roospike]

I would say if welding at higher amps that the flush and stick out tips are causing burnback to the tip thus another reasion for 1/8" set back on welding tips.

I average about 8 tips a drum* of 70 or 90 wire at 1/8 set back with a 1 3/8" defuiser at an average of 350 - 450 amps run welding.

(* 1 drum of wire is 400 lbs )

[HRB]

Masher Mfg, check out bernardwelds.com. They have an article - The tipping point: How contact tip recess can impact weld quality, hope this helps.

[Wheat]

Here I copied and pasted the link...HTH


http://bernardwelds.com/articles/article14.htm

[Sully2]

...
I average about 8 tips a drum* of 70 or 90 wire at 1/8 set back with a 1 3/8" defuiser at an average of 350 - 450 amps run welding.

(* 1 drum of wire is 400 lbs )

Four hundred pounds!...WOW!!!

[Sully2]

Here I copied and pasted the link...HTH


http://bernardwelds.com/articles/article14.htm


After reading that link page....it sure seems Sundown III's comment..."He may have been Mig welding for 15 years, but he hasn't been "properly" Mig welding for long."...hit the target dead center!!!!!

[Rocky D]

Four hundred pounds!...WOW!!!

I was welding once with a Linde 252VI and suitcase wirefeeder, that took the 10# spools. Well, we had this Bozo IE that ordered a 400# drum of E70S-s and we tried everything to figger out how to get it out of the drum and use it. You couldn't run it directly into the wire feeder...it needed some sort of wire guide to even get it out of the drum....so we made a spool winder, and we had a bunch of MT spools, and tried to wind them up...we would get a quarter pound or so, on them and the wire would AH on us(Navy tech term for fouling rope):D , and so we ended up with a few half spools...what a nightmare that was. We finally saw the wire was rusting too quick, cuz the shop is less than a mile from the ocean, so we trashed about 300# of it. :(

[Masher Mfg]

Update on the tip eater.

I've been slow to release new tips to the floor and a interesting thing happened. The tip eater has been through a 10 LB roll and most of a 30 lb roll on one tip. This is progress but he still runs the tip with 1/2" stick out.

The Miller welding site says to have 1/4" stick out, the Bernared link inthis thread says to have the tip recessed 1/4". seems this is a point of voodoo.

On another front the plasma cutter is the next consumable to get under control. 2 months ago I bought 5 electrodes and 10 cups. So far they ( mostly the MIG tip eater ) have used 5 electrodes and 3 cups. From what I've read the electrode only wears during the start up pilot arc portion and should last for 2 or more cups. On it is wonderfull dealing with employees that don't care.

[Scott Young]

i just started using mig in production work. being a beginner on mig and fluxcore, i have everyone showing me their setup. we several welders and not one of them uses that many tips or that much stick out. one other thing i would be concerned with is gas usage. in order to get proper shielding gas coverage on a 1/2" tip stick out, he has to be running his gas higher. it all adds up.

[Rocky D]

The 1/4" stick-out refers to the wire sticking out from the tip to the work...the 1/4" recessed tip refers to the tip recessed up inside the nozzle...which should only be done in spray arc or spot welding. When welding, the tip should be flush with the end of the nozzle, to provide correct gas coverage. On a Miller gun, there is a contact tip, as opposed to a contact tube, which is held in place by a collet, and can be extended or recessed beyond the end of the nozzle. Miller contact tips cannot be extended beyond the end of the nozzle and to recess the tip you must change to a longer nozzle. Am I on track here, or am I not grasping the picture? It's the 1/2" thing I having trouble with. I don't understand how, (unless you have a contact tube) you can have a tip stick out beyond the nozzle. :confused:

[trial&error]

i'm with you rocky i can't figure out how the tip is extended that far.

not to cause any one ill feelings, but how many valuable work hours have you spent trying to track down a $10 per month expense? i know every dollar out there matters, but most people forget that time is real issue. what 2mins top to change out a tip twice a week? vs 10-20 min discussion about tip life and countess man hours of complaining about or to you or bean counters in general.
seems like extra tips is the way to go.

[hankj]

I think Masher means the guy is running with 1/2" wire stick-out, rather than with the tip protruding past the end of the nozzle. Don't see how you could do that with any MIG gun I have. The only way to get the tip to stick out of the nozzle is to only partially thread it in! I imagine the would be interesting after a couple hundred inches of wire....

Hank

[Rocky D]

...He also has the tip protruding 1/2" beyond the gas nozzle.

When I weld, the tip is 1/8" inside the nozzle to prevent the tip from contacting the work and melting it.

Looky here, this is what he said......now the old Linde guns used a contact tube that was about 3 inches long, and you could do it. But Not with todays guns...copper is too expensive. Now I'm also thinking if he has the tip out that far he's losing gas coverage and his welds would have porosity in the root at the very least. I'd like to see a picture of the gun.
Now, the 1/8" setback is only used for spray arc...ya really don't need to do it for short-arc.

[hankj]

Rocky,

I was referring to post #19, rather than post #1, but he did say trhat!

Hank

[Rocky D]

Rocky,

I was referring to post #19, rather than post #1, but he did say trhat!

Hank

Oh....now the part about the plasma consumables I can believe, if the air is not run through a drier filter first....plas don't like wet air!

[Masher Mfg]

i'm with you rocky i can't figure out how the tip is extended that far.

not to cause any one ill feelings, but how many valuable work hours have you spent trying to track down a $10 per month expense? i know every dollar out there matters, but most people forget that time is real issue. what 2mins top to change out a tip twice a week? vs 10-20 min discussion about tip life and countess man hours of complaining about or to you or bean counters in general.
seems like extra tips is the way to go.

There are a couple of reasons I want to get things undercontrol. The tip change usually turns into a 15 + minute, smoke break, open the wire feeder door and have a look, feed 10 ft of wire ( with the gas on ), get the other workers all fired up ordeal. There is also a general disregard for sanding discs, grinding wheels and so on.

I've got to start somewhere. Being new tips haven't hit the floor and a single tip lasted through 30 Lb of wire Vs 3 lb tells me the worker was just looking to waste time

As for what i call stickout. The 1/4 diameter rod that the wire somes out ( contact tip ) sticks out 1/2" beyond the adjustable copper tube ( nozzle ) where the gas comes out. The tips are ~ 1 1/4 long, I've found some other tips that are 3/4" long and likely what this gun should be using. I have no idea what the actual end of wire to contact tip this guy is running.

The feeder is a Lincoln LN-7, welder a Lincoln DC 250 ? the gun is a Magnum 300 ? running .035 .

[tigamajig79]

if you bang the nozzle to dislodge spatter,the threaded insert moves toward the
"work end" of the gun,the nozzle then exposes more of the tip and loses valuable
shielding envelope .....I burn 30# of .030 NS115-CF (copperfree )wire every two weeks and only two tips {average}per roll of wire....I have three co-workers that make their tips "grow" by tapping the splatter out of the gun
my suggestion:"GET SOME FRIKKIN' WELPERS {or pliers,or "plars" as it's pronounced} AND CLEAN IT OUT" this will stop the noz. from arcing on the work.:):):):):)

[Rocky D]

I like Welpers...."plars"...that's funny:D

[weldgault]

In welding pipe and walking the cup with short arc, you almost have to see the contact tip to see where you want the arc and used to be a standard nozzle with Linde. Long for Spray and short for Short circuit on pipe. John

[tigamajig79]

I like Welpers...."plars"...that's funny:D

I'm in the deep south ,brotha' there are at least two names for every tool in the shop....................keep it real! ,chris:cool:

[tigamajig79]

In welding pipe and walking the cup with short arc, you almost have to see the contact tip to see where you want the arc and used to be a standard nozzle with Linde. Long for Spray and short for Short circuit on pipe. John

MIG not TIG (the thread is about production MIG welding isn't it?)

[hankj]

I'm in the deep south ,brotha' there are at least two names for every tool in the shop....................keep it real! ,chris:cool:

Worked with a kid from Tennessee back in the '60's. One day, he pointed out a window and asked me "Whasat tar onna heel?". I was dumbfounded 'till I looked where he was pointing and saw a microwave tower on a distant hill....;)

Hank

[Some Creep]

I was out hunting with a kid from 'na south' when he looked out the car window and said "couch!"

"Huh?"

"Couch rye der!"

"WHAT?"

Apparently, he saw a coyote in a field we were driving by. When he finally got us to understand what he was trying to say and we had time to compose ourselves and wipe away the tears of laughter, the coyote was long gone.

:D

[Burnit]

Masher, We are going through the same thing right now. This has been going on all week at our plant. Apparently, company wide we used around 800K in consumables this year (three plants) Managment is slightly pissed. People change tips, abrasives, helmet lenses, gloves, safety glasses etc. whenever they feel like and waste a ton of cash.

Until monday we had toolcribs located throughout the plant, when you needed something your supervisor was supposed to take you there and retrieve what you need. But they just gave the keys to the person that needed to go there.
So needless to say things flew off the shelves.

So they came through monday and cleaned out the toolcribs. Now we have people working with a 3rd party coming around with carts. If I need a new item I have to get it from her, and I MUST have the old one to hand in. So if you dont have an item, you either dont need it, or you need to have it issued to you.

Get this, at the end of the day, I have to take my diffuser, tip and nozzle off my mig gun and lock it up with my tools.

Its absolutely nuts, but they are fed up. they gotta get it under control.
Sorry for rambling I thought you might like to hear that other people
are having the same problems.

[Rocky D]

They did a similar thing at my plant...we had a sheet with every consumable written on it, sanding disks, drills, gloves...everything, and a delivery guy would deliver it to the site, and although they didn't make us do 1 for 1 it kept the people on the job, and not wandering through the plant...saved a lot of down time, and made the bean counters happy.

[Burnit]

Having another excuse to wander around is one thing that it did eliminate, and I am glad about that. We got alot of explorers.

[Scott Young]

where i work i walked around picking up partially used grinding discs and cutoff wheels. i had a 5 gallon bucket full. what is a shame is there were tips, nozzles, gouging rods, welding rods, etc everywhere and not being used by the masses. i believe if the company really wanted to save some money they would do something drastic like was mentioned previously. i would mind it much so long as when you needed something legitimately they didn't give you the third degree or make you go through some long requisition process.

[Spook2]

Good to hear from you! Done any more of those giant welds lately?

Hank


Not lately. Those things seem to come in spurts and sporadically. From business standpoint they're great. From a man my a$$ is draggin standpoint I wouldn't care if I ever did another one! We are picking up a 50,000# press frame tomorrow to convert from a slant bed to a flat bed. Probably 3-5000# of weld will go into that one. Drop in the bucket compared to Big Weld I and II though eh? ;) I won't be doing any of that though. I am pretty much retired unless some disaster happens that I have to get involved in. Otherwise I spend my time farting around in my hobby garage and watching my two little girls grow up.

[hankj]

Not lately. Those things seem to come in spurts and sporadically. From business standpoint they're great. From a man my a$$ is draggin standpoint I wouldn't care if I ever did another one! We are picking up a 50,000# press frame tomorrow to convert from a slant bed to a flat bed. Probably 3-5000# of weld will go into that one. Drop in the bucket compared to Big Weld I and II though eh? ;) I won't be doing any of that though. I am pretty much retired unless some disaster happens that I have to get involved in. Otherwise I spend my time farting around in my hobby garage and watching my two little girls grow up.

Sounds great!

Ain't seen anything like your monster weld thread, and none of the guys you sent those 3/4" stick rods to have ever made any comments that I recall (which could mean I can't recall much) but it was the most impressive application of oxy/fuel cutting and major welding I'v ever seen.

Happy holidays, merry Christmas, and good life to you!

Hank

[Spook2]

Sounds great!

Ain't seen anything like your monster weld thread, and none of the guys you sent those 3/4" stick rods to have ever made any comments that I recall (which could mean I can't recall much) but it was the most impressive application of oxy/fuel cutting and major welding I'v ever seen.

Happy holidays, merry Christmas, and good life to you!

Hank



Uhmm, errr, ehhhh....oops. Come to think of it I never did get around to doing the Great American Big Honkin Electrode auction. I wonder if there is a way to do an ebay thing and limit it to members of this board? I don't know of any other way to be fair about it. I cant give them away to everyone that would want one and I don't know how to pick people. I suppose I could put some names in a hat an pick a half dozen for give-aways. After that I could just put em on ebay or something. Shoot, what do you guys think?

For the guys that dont know what the heck we're talking about just do a search for Big Welds and Big Welds II or something to that effect.