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View Full Version : Who makes welders for Snap-On?



rjt70
06-10-2007, 05:31 PM
My brother in law was over and sneered at my Powcon SM&ST and Hobart Hefty feeder. I heard him tell Father in law that he doesn't buy crap, he has a new Snap-On welder. From their site they do not look familiar at all. Just wondering who makes these wonder machines that he likely is paying at least 5x too much for.

MAC702
06-10-2007, 05:44 PM
Systematics, the last I heard.

You have name-brand stuff. HE HAS CRAP....

Hotfoot
06-10-2007, 05:57 PM
Systematics, the last I heard.

You have name-brand stuff. HE HAS CRAP....

Ditto.

My Blue Point (Snap On) Plasma was made in Italy, but I don't know what brand it was. I'm sure Snap On does not make their own welders. I'd be curious what he has, and what he paid for it.

As a side note, the Snap On guy was in a friend's cycle shop, and was going off against Craftsman (CrapsMan, I believe he kept saying), saying how they are strictly "beginners toy tools", etc, and how he keeps taking the entire sets in (for next to nothing) on trade -in just to get new young mechanics into a decent set of "professional" tools. He went on to say how many such sets he had 'taken in' just lately. I said, I'd take one of those rolling boxes full of Craftsman for the "200.00 he gave for them....he seemed to get quiet, and ...seems he didn't really have any after
all! :)

rjt70
06-10-2007, 06:04 PM
He keeps it in his buddies auto shop business, never seen it, just know that he's the kind of guy that thinks everything he has is better. His welder may be, but I bet he has 4k more in it than both my Powcons and my Hefty combined, which all make beautiful welds. I just wondered, because I have never seen a Snap-On anything other than in auto shops. I have been supervising, managing and welding in industrial settings for the past 15 years and I have yet to see anything other than the big three and of course Powcon.

MAC702
06-10-2007, 06:13 PM
I'll take a PowCon and an old Hobart Hefty feeder ANYTIME over any welding machine with Snap-On paint on it. This isn't even a contest.

I have a PowCon 300SM. PowCons may not be made anymore, but they were top-of-the-line industrial machines in their day and most of them are still welding happily, like mine.

IIRC, Hefty feeders were made under the old pre-ITW Hobart regime, which means they, too, were top-of-the-line industrial machines, not the (still very good) hobbiest machines that Hobarts are now (under Miller's shadow).

Snap-On would NEVER be considered a name-brand welding machine, and is nothing more than a severely overpriced generic with a paint job and a decal.

rjt70
06-10-2007, 06:34 PM
Actually I think the Powcons are now Arcon. Take a look, I have never priced them but it might be woth it to. I know ITW bought them out, but they must have either sold them, or the patent expired.

http://www.arconweld.com/

MAC702
06-10-2007, 07:03 PM
That was an ineteresting read, especially their FAQ and the bit about Constant Power welding instead of of CC or CV. I certainly see a resemblance to PowCon, and they make a lot of references to how this is a time-tested design, which is probably counting all the many PowCons in existance.

I know another company has the rights, parts, and service for the older PowCons, though: www.arc-products.com/powcon, so I wonder what the real deal is with Arcon. I thought the unit that was designed to be powered by high-voltage DC was pretty cool, able to tie in to a train's third rail.

TomsMR2
06-10-2007, 07:07 PM
amp for amp, the snap-on welders are probably the most expensive welders on the market. ive never heard anything good about them, even from the snap-on dealer himself!

im sure their high end welders are good.. its just that you could spend 1/3rd as much and get a miller/hobart/lincoln with more power and features.

aametalmaster
06-10-2007, 07:25 PM
I welded a Chevy Vortec V6 into a Geo Tracker at my buddies place of employment and he has a snap on mig welder. I didn't like it but it worked. I wouldn't trade my MM185 for 5 of his welders. The spoolgun looks awkward as heck to use, but it was durable...Bob

rjt70
06-10-2007, 07:28 PM
I shot Arcon an e-mail for a quote on the MIG/stick unit just for giggles. I wonder how much an SM is refurbished from ARC Products?

weld_13
06-10-2007, 08:01 PM
ok first of all thats just dum to try and make urself look good by buying snap on and say u only buy good tools as for what it is i have no idea but thats just dum to think.

rjt70
06-10-2007, 08:19 PM
LOL, yea he is what he is, and he will likely be making payments to the guy in that truck until he retires.

JimDon
06-10-2007, 10:24 PM
Maybe Snap-On needs to change to Crap-On instead of calling Craftsman, Crapsman. My buddy has a boatload of Snap-On tools. He had a couple ratchets break and some other (I don't remember exactly what it was) pieces that needed repair or replacement. Snap-On dealer told him they were NO LONGER UNDER WARRANTY. What the heh? I thought they had a lifetime replacement policy if any of their stuff broke. He is mad as hello about this and is telling everybody he can about how Snap-On screwed him over. He ever went one step further above the local truck dealer and they still told him no deal. They won't repair or replace because they are too OLD. Never had that at Sears when I've taken Craftsman (not Companion) hand tools in to be switched out. Dealers or stores don't really lose out on this switch out. They just send the tool to whoever has the contract to make the tools for them at the time. They melt them down in the pot and re-use the metal to re-cast another one.
Jim Don

Sberry
06-10-2007, 11:59 PM
I have seen some crappy snappy stuff, a 250 A feeder that comes with a 12 cord. Only guys I have ever seen really happy with the machines never used them. As for the hand tools, as good as any but there is no real reason to spend up for most of them when stuff 20% of the price will do

BWS29128
06-11-2007, 06:17 AM
Maybe Snap-On needs to change to Crap-On instead of calling Craftsman, Crapsman. My buddy has a boatload of Snap-On tools. He had a couple ratchets break and some other (I don't remember exactly what it was) pieces that needed repair or replacement. Snap-On dealer told him they were NO LONGER UNDER WARRANTY. What the heh? I thought they had a lifetime replacement policy if any of their stuff broke. He is mad as hello about this and is telling everybody he can about how Snap-On screwed him over. He ever went one step further above the local truck dealer and they still told him no deal. They won't repair or replace because they are too OLD. Never had that at Sears when I've taken Craftsman (not Companion) hand tools in to be switched out. Dealers or stores don't really lose out on this switch out. They just send the tool to whoever has the contract to make the tools for them at the time. They melt them down in the pot and re-use the metal to re-cast another one.
Jim Don

This same thing happened to me: the Snap-On truck guy offered to buy my Craftsman and Stanley tools from me (about $500 worth) for $100. Then he wanted to sell me $500 worth of his tools for $450. In the end, I paid $150 for a 3/8" ratchet and 12 sockets to fit. Within a month, two of the sockets were broken (hairline cracks) and the gears were stripped on the ratchet. The Snap-On guy came back, I told him my problems, and he promised he'd be back with the replacements in a week. Kinda convenient since he had them on there to begin with. Anyway, he never showed up again, which ended up being a good thing 'cause my shop supervisor (Yamaha/SeaDoo Dealership) called the MAC tools guy, chucked his $2500 worth of Snap-On tools (this was before eBay, obviously), and bought all new MAC stuff. As for me, I ate the $150 and have stuck with Craftsman and Stanley ever since. Recently I bought about $200 worth of Kobalt sockets/ratchets so that I'd have a second set of tools----one at the farm and one in town at the shop----and have been very impressed with them so far.

I've known two people with Snap-On MIG welders....one guy said the only d*&$&^# thing the SO welder was good for was a boat anchor. The other guy had it sittin' in the corner of his shop cause it matched all his other SO memorabilia and he'd never used it in the 3 years he'd owned it. Hmm....more money than sense, huh?

rjt70
06-11-2007, 09:52 AM
I got a pdf file on the 300ms and a current pricing list from Arcon this morning. The pdf file has convinced me that they have picked up where Powcon left off. I wonder what improvements they have made, if any. Back of the machine is identicle to my SM, same ins and outs, same breaker switch in same location. Now to compare a totally re-furbished price out of ARC-Products.

Some Creep
06-11-2007, 10:23 AM
As a Factory Authorized welder repairer for Century / Solar, one of the brand names under my wrench was...you guessed it...Snap-On! Their floor jacks (the GOOD ones) were made by Lincoln, which I also was Factory Auth. repair dude for, Snap-On chargers were Marquette, then bought by Lincoln, then Century. Solar and Century did the 'merge' thing, and the Snap-On plasma cutters were Solar. They changed vendors pretty often in the early '90s. All in all they had OK stuff, but not for twice the price. The gear sold well to guys after the pretty color and the fancy name. If they did much research they would have found the truth, but they didn't.

Is it just me, or does it seem like I always say 'I've worked on that' alot in here? Sorry if I come off this way, I'm by FAR not a know-it-all!

ZRX61
06-11-2007, 11:35 AM
Looks like a case of the "Harlier than tho" attitude where marketing & image overcome the fact that the product is a pile of crap. Snap-On has the same BS going for them.
How many time ya heard the "Harley make the best bikes" lie? If thats the case, why the **** do the owners have to change every **** part of the bike except the sparkplugs to "make it better"? Surely you can't improve upon perfection?
When I was working on Shelbys we had 2 SnapOn welders sat in the corner of the shop, neither of them were ever used because they're worse than junk... they're overpriced junk...
The Harley Davidson of welders.. LMFAO!!

MAC702
06-11-2007, 11:43 AM
You're such an idiot. I know for a fact that they change the spark plugs, too. :D

Reminds me of my favorite pistol. It's a Colt Combat Elite .45 ACP. Well, that's still what it says on the slide anyway. Except for the slide and frame, not a thing on it is from the Colt factory anymore.

crawler
06-11-2007, 11:54 AM
Does anyone know if Matco and Cornwell welder also fall into to same category as a, "Crap-On" welder? Maybe a better name is, "Crapped-On" welder.... :D :D :D

Snap-on does make some very nice tools... I like their ratchets and sockets... Too bad I can't afford too many Snap-on tools since they're so expensive. Just don't buy their welder.

aametalmaster
06-11-2007, 02:56 PM
Kobalt and some Craftsman are made in the same plant. The old Williams tool line is the Craftsman/Kobalt line up. There is a small forging company just east of where i live that make their wrench's for them. Hey how about Wright Tools made in Barberton Ohio. I have some since they have my name on them...Bob

MAC702
07-22-2007, 06:22 PM
So who makes Mac Tools welding machines, while we're on the subject?

MAC702
07-22-2007, 06:23 PM
I shot Arcon an e-mail for a quote on the MIG/stick unit just for giggles. I wonder how much an SM is refurbished from ARC Products?

What did you find out?

John1
07-22-2007, 07:37 PM
I use to be a Snap On dealer years ago.

They make excellent hand tools, but when they started marketing other products such as welders, alignment machines etc; the quality was not there.

Keep in mind the reason most mechanics buy Snap-On, Mac, Cornwell etc/Franchise
is they are called on at there shops weekly, or supposed to be, and can make weekly no interest payments.

PS: I refused to salel the welders put out by Snap-On.

Me a Miller Only guy. (MM Vintage/Synchro 250/175/135 forgive me Thermal Dynamics Plasma.

?? I have always loved my MM Vintage. How does this machine stack up against machine by Miller today.??

My .02 worth.

John1

Sully2
07-22-2007, 09:07 PM
So who makes Mac Tools welding machines, while we're on the subject?

The MAC ( 120V ) welder my LWS has on the shelf ( except for paint color) is identical to a HH120/140 model EXTERNALLY. I never opened it up to look inside because I wasnt interested in it.

crawler
07-22-2007, 09:42 PM
Me a Miller Only guy. (MM Vintage/Synchro 250/175/135 forgive me Thermal Dynamics Plasma.

?? I have always loved my MM Vintage. How does this machine stack up against machine by Miller today.??

John1

I was told the Millermatic Vintage was a welder they made after the MM250, 250X fiasco. There were so many really pissed off folks who sold or traded in their MM200 for the new and improved 250/250X. Miller made this welder for these folks.

The Vintage is supposed to have the same transformer as the Millermatic 200, only in a newer chassis and is supposed to be the same (performance wise) as the MM200. This is what was told to me by Miller. SKP-35 spot panel will work on the Miller Vintage as well as MM200 and MM35.

I would guess that MM Vintage would weld just as well or better than what is currently available now. I love my "old" (1991 model) Millermatic 200.

HEAVY CHEVY
07-23-2007, 04:35 PM
This is a great thread,I feel snap on hand tools are the best out there and well worth the money.If you turn wrenches all day then you want the best.There wrenches,ratchets and hand tools are the best out there.But mac ,matco,cornwell and craftsman are also great tools.I do feel companies like mac cornwell and matco have lost the quality they once had.There pliers have gotten cheaper,they throw together those package deals for cheap but the quality aint there like snap on.

There is not a better made hand tool on this earth like snap on.Anybody who thinks different is probably just not ready to lay out the money for good tools.

As for there welders,i agree they aint the best and are very overpriced.

Snap on ''There is a difference''

Stanger
07-23-2007, 05:06 PM
It seems that there are very few actual reviews of the SnapOn welders so I thought I'd give one. I am not an experienced weldor, just 18 years old, but I use this machine fairly often and should be able to provide a decent review. It is a 110v mig unit, probably about 130A class machine(not sure exactly). It is definitely built by Century and has infinite voltage control. I have been using it to restore a '66 Mustang, and put floors in two '69 Mach 1's. This means that I have been using the unit primarily for sheetmetal work, about 22-24ga. It welds OK, not terrible but not great. I feel that the HH 125 I used previously was better and that my new HH 187 murders it. The SO had a 90A and 110A range. I have never used a welder like that before but it was kind of handy. If I was welding sheetmetal and then needed to weld a little heavier sheet, I would just kick it up to the 110A range without changing settings and it would weld about the same just with more power. The thickest I ever welded was about 16ga and it handled it fine(as it should). Overall the welder is decent but definitely not as nice as the new HH or MM, no comparison really. The owner of the welder says that he got a special though or he would have never bought it. He said it only cost him a about $360 or something(about 13-14 years ago) so it was worth that. I don't know what they go for now but I sure wouldn't pay more for the SO name! It wasn't a whole lot better than the '96 Cman mig I was using but it was better. The Cman was hot ALL the time and had VERY little power. Both were Centurys though and I would not buy either. Leave me with my HH187 and the SO's to those other guys.:D
Grant

Sberry
07-23-2007, 06:04 PM
At 10 times the price the snapon is not better than a kobalt., to me it isn't worth twice the money and you are right,, not ready to lay out the cash. If I thought it would make a lick of difference I would be all over it but 99% of the time a 1.50 Walmart wrench works just as good. I got a set or 2 of small end wrenches in snappy and you are right, every once in a while they do make a bit of difference but once we get above sizes where rounded fasteners are a factor the point is moot. My auto parts store delivers a good Chinese impact socket to my door for 4$ with a lifetime warranty which I used about twice over 20 yrs. I did buy an SK impact the other day to fill set I got at a sale that had one missing, 3/4x1-1/8 and it was about 25$. If I was out to impress the Joneses with shine I would be looking at SK, premium tool at a decent price, if I was out to make money with a wrench set it would be Allen from Menard's or for shine the Kobalt stuff. 10 pc wrench set, around 30$ made in USA. I would make that back the first hr and the next guy ain't made the first payment to snappy.

Sberry
07-23-2007, 06:34 PM
Hand tools are a place where the competitiveness has really driven up quality. 15 yrs ago you wouldn't have seen the quality tools in a box store or a Walmart. I looked in a couple, man they got a lot of stuff, a lot of the common things, sets of bits, those Stanley polished wrench sets are no joke at the price. I was on the road and needed a metric hex bit set, I could have paid 200$ for them 20 yrs ago on the payment plan and let them rattle around the truck until the day I need them or fork over 15 dollars while I was there anyway. 20 yrs ago a China "Crescent" wasn't worth owning, better every day now. And as for pliers and drivers we get back to the deal again, snappy copies, no one makes a better vise grip than them especially for the street price, Klein too, as well as Proto, Diamond, Lisle in specialty tools, Ideal, etc. These kind of tools are a commodity, I cant even give a big kudo;s to the blow job salesman on the trucks, everyone should feel honored it seems to take a screwin and you can even sign up for a payment plan. My auto store will deliver a brand new shiny 16mm SK for 8 frickin dollars to my door an hour after I call him, bill me at the end of the month, say thank you sir. 42 dollars if I walk on the truck and dam near kiss his azz. Why would I do that?

MAC702
07-23-2007, 06:41 PM
...My auto store will deliver a brand new shiny 16mm SK for 8 frickin dollars to my door an hour after I call him, bill me at the end of the month, say thank you sir. 42 dollars if I walk on the truck and dam near kiss his azz. Why would I do that?

Amen to that.

HEAVY CHEVY
07-23-2007, 07:09 PM
Snap on tools are expensive but the quality and craftsmanship is there.They are well made and precise,there ratchets are very tight with no slop like some ratchets.I dont mind spending extra money on snap on ,its a lifetime investment and as long as i dont lose my tools i will have them forever.
Snap on tool boxes are also the best built,I have a krl 1022 filled with tools that if i tried to put in a craftsman box would collapse,on my box i can open the bottom draw and stand on it,box doesnt blink an eye,and I weigh a hefty 280lbs.
I do respect all other makes of american tools,they will do the job and do it good,But they dont even come close to snap on quality and craftsmanship.For me money is not important when buying tools,cause when i pick up that snap on flank drive wrench ,its well worth it

trial&error
07-23-2007, 07:59 PM
Snap on tools are expensive but the quality and craftsmanship is there.They are well made and precise,there ratchets are very tight with no slop like some ratchets.I dont mind spending extra money on snap on ,its a lifetime investment and as long as i dont lose my tools i will have them forever.
Snap on tool boxes are also the best built,I have a krl 1022 filled with tools that if i tried to put in a craftsman box would collapse,on my box i can open the bottom draw and stand on it,box doesnt blink an eye,and I weigh a hefty 280lbs.
I do respect all other makes of american tools,they will do the job and do it good,But they dont even come close to snap on quality and craftsmanship.For me money is not important when buying tools,cause when i pick up that snap on flank drive wrench ,its well worth it

i'm sure we'd all love to see proof of that.

bpickell
07-23-2007, 08:05 PM
This is a great thread,I feel snap on hand tools are the best out there and well worth the money.If you turn wrenches all day then you want the best.There wrenches,ratchets and hand tools are the best out there.But mac ,matco,cornwell and craftsman are also great tools.I do feel companies like mac cornwell and matco have lost the quality they once had.There pliers have gotten cheaper,they throw together those package deals for cheap but the quality aint there like snap on.

There is not a better made hand tool on this earth like snap on.Anybody who thinks different is probably just not ready to lay out the money for good tools.

As for there welders,i agree they aint the best and are very overpriced.

Snap on ''There is a difference''

I own both Snap-on and Mac hand tools. Me personally I prefer the Mac sockets and wrenches. I use the Snap-on sockets to round the nuts off, and then break out the Mac Edge sockets to take off those rounded off fasteners. Mac has come a long way in the last couple years.

MAC702
07-23-2007, 08:07 PM
Snap on tools are expensive but the quality and craftsmanship is there....
...snap on quality and craftsmanship.For me money is not important when buying tools,...

So does all of this apply to "their" welding machines? That was the point of the thread after all. Seems most people say their tools are high quality, even if they aren't willing to pay for them or deal with their salesmen.

air-sickness
07-23-2007, 08:18 PM
At 10 times the price the snapon is not better than a kobalt., to me it isn't worth twice the money and you are right,, not ready to lay out the cash.

I tend to agree. Although it is said that you get what you pay for (usually by someone trying to sell you somethin spensive) I think with snap on we pay too much for what we get.
I still love the Mac 1/4" deep sockets. really thin wall socket, Great for working behind the firewall of a Bell Jet Ranger.

bpickell
07-23-2007, 08:19 PM
So does all of this apply to "their" welding machines? That was the point of the thread after all. Seems most people say their tools are high quality, even if they aren't willing to pay for them or deal with their salesmen.

I'm gonna' go out on a limb and say no the quality is not there with the welders. I've welded with a century welder and must say it was a horrifying experience.

HEAVY CHEVY
07-23-2007, 08:57 PM
I own both Snap-on and Mac hand tools. Me personally I prefer the Mac sockets and wrenches. I use the Snap-on sockets to round the nuts off, and then break out the Mac Edge sockets to take off those rounded off fasteners. Mac has come a long way in the last couple years.

Something really surprised me about mac,there macimizer screwdriver set they sell for about $150,they are identical to the stanley set except being yellow sold at walmart for $16,

bpickell
07-23-2007, 09:05 PM
Something really surprised me about mac,there macimizer screwdriver set they sell for about $150,they are identical to the stanley set except being yellow sold at walmart for $16,

That doesn't surprise me at all. Stanley owns Mac Tools. So it doesn't surprise me that they would rebadge their screwdrivers. I don't know which one is rebadged though. I guess they could have rebadged the stanley screwdriver with the mac screw drivers. Or maybe they aren't the same, maybe they just used the mac grips.

Sberry
07-23-2007, 09:12 PM
The majority of the worlds work is done with hand tools. For the most part the technological differences are so minor it wouldn't affect the outcome significantly no matter which brand or maybe even quality that was used. I can buy 9 more sets of Allens in case of loss or breakage, like I said, a commodity and many don't have the right tool or enough more than the quality or its the skill factor. No one is going to take my dinner away cause he came to the fight with snappy vs my SK, no competitive edge or very minor to be gained at great expense. A lot of cheap welders don't work or work long enough to warrant a cheaper price vs replacement costs. A Riland still costs 1400 vs say 2 grand for Miller maybe a little more and the Miller probably works better so the decision is different than if the Riland cost 400$, was 90% as good with even half the life expectancy.
Same with battery tools, ones half the money wont do the job as well, where manpower costs are high and it effects productivity it makes it worth the effort to go with the best but the 3/4 bolt we are hitting wont know the difference between a 4 dollar socket or a 40 dollar one. If I gonna be spinning bolts much its gonna be power drive anyway. Cheap wrenches work. I agree that junk sockets and ratchets are useless but I don't care what brand they are as long as it works. I need a new tool box or maybe just a little repair and I like the looks of that stuff at the box store for about 800 vs the 8 grand option. I could buy 2 and take half the stuff I didn't use much in the second to lighten the load and buy a new one every couple years. Probably there was a day when they were the only ones made a good box or good tool but its history.

Sberry
07-23-2007, 09:25 PM
I tend to agree. Although it is said that you get what you pay for (usually by someone trying to sell you somethin spensive) I think with snap on we pay too much for what we get.
I still love the Mac 1/4" deep sockets. really thin wall socket, Great for working behind the firewall of a Bell Jet Ranger.

I agree there is the time and place for a few specialty tools where the use is high, makes sense where you have application for constant use to have something nice. I have a few snappy but very few compared to the thousand or so wrenches or sockets I own. They got their place but my hand doesn't go their first. I will also agree with most people that say Craftsman has long since slid down the ladder, for the most part they never were really a premium tool anyway and these guys like Husky are in the same class, got them beat on quality and price by a long shot by a way better vendor in a better location.

bpickell
07-23-2007, 11:01 PM
I'm all for running down to the local harbor freight for cheap tools. But when it comes down to sockets and wrenches, no way. I won't even buy Craftsman sockets and wrenches any more. You try to take off a rusted bolt with one and you can watch the wrench spread as you apply torque to the fastener. Same with their sockets. When they flex, they round the fastener. The only wrenches I have found that do the best job at not rounding fasteners is either the Mac Edge line or the Mac knuckle saver line. I've tried the Snap-on flank drives. I have two sets of them, but always grab the mac's as I have the least problems with them.

Someone mentioned earlier that the Mac welders looked like Hobarts. I have to agree with that statement. They are identical to the Hobart welders.

The Plasma cutters on the other hand look like Datona Mig Plasma cutters. They are identical in every way.

I really like the bearing drive ratchet's from Mac. Has anyone else tried those?

tspmax
07-24-2007, 05:53 AM
I have plenty of Craftsman tools and only replaced one wrench in 30 years. They had no problem replacing the tool when I went to the local store. I don't wrench every day but do work with them when I do.
But you have to be smart with them too. I have been around a few friends that would grab any 12 point socket when a 6 point would be better. Or using a deep socket to break a frozen nut loose when a short socket would do the job. Then sit back and complain (bit_h) about the quality of the tools. Use a little un-common sense. The right tool for the right job.

Shop Outfitters
07-24-2007, 08:46 AM
So who makes a Good Butterfly 3/8 Driver? I have gone through 3 huskies in a year.

MAC702
07-24-2007, 09:24 AM
...The right tool for the right job.

Who was it that had their signature with the tagline: "Hand me a wrench. Doesn't matter what size; I'm gonna use it as a hammer..."?

Sberry
07-24-2007, 09:55 AM
I want to get a butterfly, dont have one but used a Mac a while back that worked wonderful. I assume Ingersoll or CP makes them. I have used several Husky pieces and that kind of stuff seems to work fine if it is a rotary tool, if it is impact it doesn't hold up.

bpickell
07-24-2007, 12:48 PM
Back when I was a mechanic many moons ago, I had a Mac butterfly and never had any problems with it whatsoever. One of my co-workers had a matco and never had any problems with his either. But in that respect I guess you would get what you pay for.

whateg0
07-24-2007, 12:52 PM
...Craftsman has long since slid down the ladder,... guys like Husky are in the same class, got them beat on quality and price by a long shot by a way better vendor in a better location.

Better vendor? I can buy Craftsman tools at Kmart now, and what says quality hand tools better than "Kmart"? ;) Actually, I still own quite a few Craftsman tools, but I haven't bought any in quite a while. Anymore, when I need hand tools, I usually go to HF down the street, or Walmart and buy the Stanley tools. I even bought a Stanley ratchet a few years back that would occasionally stop ratcheting. It would just lock up. I emailed Stanley and they sent me a new ratchet that I got a couple days later. I've never broken a HF wrench yet, though I will admit that I won't put all my weight into one trying to break a bolt loose. I've never found the fit to be bad enough to say I wish I owned a MAC/Snapon/Matco. I use my tools in the shop and everywhere else, so it wouldn't be cost effective for me to buy expensive tools anyway. Too many get misplaced. I even bought a $20 no-name tool set from Walmart for in the toolbox in the truck, and it works well enough when I need it. And I'll gladly shell out $10 for a soda-flat full of odds-n-ends wrenches at an auction.

Just my 2.4 cents.

Dave

JimDon
07-24-2007, 01:08 PM
Not enough interest in yard sales? What a gold mine. Williams and Proto tools, along with lots of Craftsman if you look around. Even bought a nice nice set of Lectrolite, dog bone styled box wrenches for less than $1 each. Last weekend scored a Kennedy 7 drawer roller cab at a yard sale. Asking price was $75. What a steal.
Jim Don

HEAVY CHEVY
07-24-2007, 01:21 PM
I've never found the fit to be bad enough to say I wish I owned a MAC/Snapon/Matco. I use my tools in the shop and everywhere else, so it wouldn't be cost effective for me to buy expensive tools anyway. Too many get misplaced.

Just my 2.4 cents.

Dave
This is the reason i own snap on tools,cost me alot of $$$,so im extra careful and make sure they dont get misplaced.

Sully2
07-24-2007, 02:24 PM
I buy the best tools I can afford for the JOB AT HAND. Ive never needed any higher quality ( or lack thereof) than Craftsman or SK Wayne brand. If I have a "1 time..or 2 ties need" for a wrench or socket..I have no problem with picking up a "Hong Kong's Best" from HB. Im not about to lay out $18 for a large metric socket to torque down front end loader frame bolts every TWO YEARS of usage!!...:eek: Round the head off? No problem at all. I'll just drive it 3 miles to my buddys house and use the "hot wrench" on it and cut it out and replace it with a new bolt and nut.

If a person uses their tools all the time..especially for their livelyhood...different story. THEY need top quality tools...I dont...and I dont.

Im way past the stage in life where Im impressed by the "Mine's bigger than yours"...comparing toolboxes or anything else

malibu101
07-24-2007, 06:58 PM
I'm all for running down to the local harbor freight for cheap tools. But when it comes down to sockets and wrenches, no way. I won't even buy Craftsman sockets and wrenches any more. You try to take off a rusted bolt with one and you can watch the wrench spread as you apply torque to the fastener. Same with their sockets. When they flex, they round the fastener. The only wrenches I have found that do the best job at not rounding fasteners is either the Mac Edge line or the Mac knuckle saver line. I've tried the Snap-on flank drives. I have two sets of them, but always grab the mac's as I have the least problems with them.


If you MUST use an open end wrench to loosen a tough nut instead of a socket the wrenches in the link work well. They will leave grip marks on the heads of softer grade hardware. One of the few Snappy things I have.
http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/item.asp?P65=&tool=all&item_ID=4368&group_ID=516&store=snapon-store&dir=catalog

Bern_F150_4X4
07-24-2007, 10:06 PM
If you MUST use an open end wrench to loosen a tough nut instead of a socket the wrenches in the link work well. They will leave grip marks on the heads of softer grade hardware. One of the few Snappy things I have.
http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/item.asp?P65=&tool=all&item_ID=4368&group_ID=516&store=snapon-store&dir=catalog

WOW $294 for 10 open end wrenches :eek:

Lets see... above SO wrench set or a 20 Ton press and a 4x6 saw from HF?? The bulk of my hand tools (wrenches, sockets, drivers etc) are Craftsman from the late 70's and 80's. I have bought a few sets of HF impact sockets and jumbo crecents; haven't broken any yet...

My tools don't pay the bills, they keep me from paying $$ for some yahoo to screw up the things I own.

whateg0
07-25-2007, 09:05 AM
WOW $294 for 10 open end wrenches :eek:
...

Yeah, holy %%%%! Even if was making a living with them, how many times do you really need an open end wrench like that?

Dave

Sberry
07-25-2007, 09:28 AM
I make a living with my tools and I would have to do 10 jobs instead of 1 to pay for them. Of course those really dont compare to some other habits I have had. I could have been enriching the snapon guy vs some bar owners but my point in all this is to younger guys that might think they need those to be a mechanic. I am less pretentious about tools all the time and I actually need less, I can do with half the stuff I needed 20 yrs ago and its the brain that is the biggest asset. I still see experienced men having problems,,, "I just cant get it." 3/4 of the time they are not looking at it right, have their head twisted around or are on their back when kneeling or reaching from the top side would be easier and better.
Speaking of Lectrolites, someone gave me a box a while back with "these old wrenches", whole small set in there of those although I did use one a while back, thought they might be kind of soft? I use a gob of the ones from TSC, Olympia I think, china but 1.50 for a small wrench and I like them. Strong, thin, cheap, really about the only china hand tools I have. Over the years I have found that an end wrench is not so sophisticated that quality makes a huge difference, sockets another matter. As for knuckle busters, that dont much happen either, it ain't the wrench, its the technique.

whateg0
07-25-2007, 09:40 AM
...As for knuckle busters, that dont much happen either, it ain't the wrench, its the technique.

True. I've never busted a knuckle from a broken wrench. Usually, it's because I'm putting too much weight into getting that bolt loose and then when it does break loose...

Dave

bpickell
07-25-2007, 10:28 AM
If you MUST use an open end wrench to loosen a tough nut instead of a socket the wrenches in the link work well. They will leave grip marks on the heads of softer grade hardware. One of the few Snappy things I have.
http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/item.asp?P65=&tool=all&item_ID=4368&group_ID=516&store=snapon-store&dir=catalog

I do actually have those wrenches. They are good wrenches, but they aren't the best in the world if you are already dealing with worn/rounded fasteners. I have tested them compared to the Mac Edge wrenches and the Mac Edge wrench will grip a fastener and remove it even if it is almost totally round, whereas the Flank-Drive wrench still needs something to grip.

bpickell
07-25-2007, 10:33 AM
As for knuckle busters, that dont much happen either, it ain't the wrench, its the technique.

You must only work on new cars then. I work on mostly 20 to 30 year old cars in the snow/salt belt, where 90 percent of the nuts are fused to the bolt with rust. And a lot of them are in locations that a ratchet will not fit, so you have to use open ended wrenches. And the sad truth about cheap open ended wrenches is that they flex. Flexing is bad, very bad when you are talking about a nut that is going to need about 300 pounds of torque to remove.

malibu101
07-25-2007, 10:50 AM
True. I've never busted a knuckle from a broken wrench. Usually, it's because I'm putting too much weight into getting that bolt loose and then when it does break loose...

Dave
It's not just the tool breaking or the bolt head snapping off. It's the part of a sloppy fitting wrench or the wrench opening up and slipping around the head rounding it and as a result of that---busted knucles and a rounded off head in a hard to reach place.

Sberry
07-25-2007, 02:51 PM
I am a farmer, I live on old equipment. Most old bolts get replaced. I do have a few good wrenches for such occasions but they are rare for the most part or get burned off. As for 300# of torque on a 1/2 or 9/16 isn't going to happen with a snappy or other common end wrench. A guy might be able to twist off a common bolt but I doubt many will a hardened one. I mechanic a long time and I get a chance to compare myself to others in this industry and no one will beat up on me at the end of the day because he has a 300$ set of wrenches. I am a stuck fastener expert. Broken, seized, rounded, stripped, you name it.
My neighbor the other day, hrs on one stuck item, him and another guy both pretty fair mechanics, one with engineering background. 4 hrs later, pullers, heat, you name it still stuck. Cary, 4 minutes, 4 whacks with the right hammer.

Sully2
07-25-2007, 03:41 PM
... As for 300# of torque on a 1/2 or 9/16 isn't going to happen with a snappy or other common end wrench. A guy might be able to twist off a common bolt but I doubt many will a hardened one.....

Ahem!..."break away torque" can easily EXCEED 3 times the fasteners "tightening" torque.

( 100 lbs IN....300 lbs OUT)

bpickell
07-25-2007, 04:32 PM
Ahem!..."break away torque" can easily EXCEED 3 times the fasteners "tightening" torque.

( 100 lbs IN....300 lbs OUT)

Exactly... My wrench is about a foot long and I weigh 160 pounds I can literally hang off of the wrench and it won't budge. I usually end up have to get a 2 foot pipe and slip over the wrench. So that would equal 450 pounds of torque and the nut would barely move. And to top it off I would still need the pipe to loosen the nut at least half way before removing the pipe due to all the rust on the threads.

Now I know there are many people out there who swear by PB Blaster, but I refuse to use the stuff anymore. Every single time I use it all it does is soften the bolt and I end up twisting it off.

A torch, I know that is the proper way to remove the rusted fasteners, however there is a lot of flammable materials on the cars I work on. The cars I work on have a bad rep for catching fire anyway.:D

So I have to use brute force to loosen these fasteners. But hey I look at it this way sooner or later I will have all of the fasteners replaced and won't have this issue anymore.

JimDon
07-25-2007, 04:38 PM
Get some Kroil and skip the PB Blaster and Liquid Wrench junk.
Jim Don

Sully2
07-25-2007, 04:45 PM
Get some Kroil and skip the PB Blaster and Liquid Wrench junk.
Jim Don

"Kreeping Kroil"...great stuff

BTW: I have lugnuts on a motorhome that get torqued to 450 ft lbs GOING ON!!!!! ( Talk about the proverbial "nut buster" getting them OFF!!!...:eek: )

HEAVY CHEVY
07-25-2007, 10:17 PM
I am a farmer, I live on old equipment. Most old bolts get replaced. I do have a few good wrenches for such occasions but they are rare for the most part or get burned off. As for 300# of torque on a 1/2 or 9/16 isn't going to happen with a snappy or other common end wrench. A guy might be able to twist off a common bolt but I doubt many will a hardened one. I mechanic a long time and I get a chance to compare myself to others in this industry and no one will beat up on me at the end of the day because he has a 300$ set of wrenches. I am a stuck fastener expert. Broken, seized, rounded, stripped, you name it.
My neighbor the other day, hrs on one stuck item, him and another guy both pretty fair mechanics, one with engineering background. 4 hrs later, pullers, heat, you name it still stuck. Cary, 4 minutes, 4 whacks with the right hammer.

Snap on makes the best tools in the world,but most usa tools are very good and will do the job.Having snap on tools will not make you a great mechanic,I feel a good mechanic has to have brains and has to know how to use his/her hands,
When you buy snap on tools ,there is a difference,the quality,durability and precision definitely stands out from the rest,so i feel they are well worth the money,I will not part with my tools and will have them for life,when I spend money on good tool I feel it is an investment.
I would say 95% of your top auto mechanics in the country have mostly snap on,mac,and matco.Why cause these tools are the best,and not cause they get credit off the truck,i can go to sears and get approved for thier card in 5 minutes.
I am a professional mechanic,I use professional tools

PeteZ28
07-25-2007, 11:00 PM
Snap on makes the best tools in the world,but most usa tools are very good and will do the job.Having snap on tools will not make you a great mechanic,I feel a good mechanic has to have brains and has to know how to use his/her hands,
When you buy snap on tools ,there is a difference,the quality,durability and precision definitely stands out from the rest,so i feel they are well worth the money,I will not part with my tools and will have them for life,when I spend money on good tool I feel it is an investment.
I would say 95% of your top auto mechanics in the country have mostly snap on,mac,and matco.Why cause these tools are the best,and not cause they get credit off the truck,i can go to sears and get approved for thier card in 5 minutes.
I am a professional mechanic,I use professional tools


Are you sure you aren't a Snap On dealer? ;)

Like others here, I've spun more than my share of wrenches at dealers and independant shops alike. I will say, there are a few things that the truck is tops on, but those are few and far in between. Snappy makes some **** nice swivel sockets, very slim profile and they work at insane angles. But they are also $30 a peice in the 1/4" sizes! I lost a set of 5 8-13mm a few years ago, the **** if I'm spending that agian. I buy an SK for half that price when I need one, and the new design SK's aren't a lot different.

Snappy air tools should be dragged out to the street and shot. My FAR25 air ratchet broke more times than I care to think of, and had it rebuilt at $90 a shot. Eventually it pissed me off and it met the block wall in the shop. I can buy two IR air ratchets for $50 each or less that work just as well, and if/when one breaks, I can send it in for warranty and still have a backup. Snappy was hiding it from me for over a month at times. $90 and I don't have a tool 2 months out of the year. That's what my $300 earned me. **** as often as it broke, I could just BUY a new IR and still be ahead of the game.

Impact sockets? Don't get me started. Snaps are way too soft. I've seen more rounded out, beat up Snappy's than I care to count. Hate to say it, but my Sunnex sockets are holding up wonderfully after many years of abuse. My 19mm socket after 6 years still has little wear, even to the black coating. If you've ever worked at a GM dealer, you know that one gets a work out! Oh yeah, price a set of Sunnex vs Snaps, I can't see any "value" in a set of red truck tools at all.

The "Blue Point" line is another joke. Almost all of it is rebranded Taiwan or China crap at 3x the price. But they push it like it's Snap On quality. If it is, that doesn't say much about Snap On quality.

In their defense, my 5/8" thick spring steel prybar is a dream come true. Actually worth the $86 I paid for it. And you'd be hard pressed to find a nicer dead blow ball peen.

The truth is, home shops and probably 99% (or more) of pro's can get away with far less expensive tools than they use. Some of the best tech's I have met have boxes full of Craftsman, Stanley, and SK tools. And they can get them replaced in minutes, not days should they break. I waited 3 months for a Torx tip for one of my snapped off Snap On screwdrivers. My dealer was having credit problems (no doubt as a result of Snappy's rediculous dealer credit program) and could not even order me warranty parts. SOME WARRANTY PROGRAM!!! I finally got it fixed after switching jobs, and dealers.

Yes I was all gung ho for the tool wagons when I started, then I realized.

My tools should work for me, I shouldn't be working for my tools.

bpickell
07-26-2007, 07:10 AM
My tools should work for me, I shouldn't be working for my tools.

That right there was the sole reason I gave up being a mechanic. I was spending darn near 90% of my paycheck on the weekly truck visits. I got to thinking why do I even have a job? All of my money I make on my job is going for tools so I can do my job.LOL..

So now I'm in the computer field where I don't have to buy anything to keep my job.

I do still however buy good tools so I can work on my cars though. Just not every week.

bpickell
07-26-2007, 07:16 AM
I don't want to get in a debate about how good Craftsman tools are, I know they are decent tools, however I must comment on this. The last time I had my car aligned, I took it to sears. If craftsman tools and tool boxes are so good and convenient to swap out. Why is it that all of the mechanics at sears have snappy and mac boxes and tools? I didn't see one craftsman box. And the tools that I that the mechanic that was doing my alignment was using were mac tools. There mere Mac impacts and air ratchets laying around, didn't see one craftsman impact anywhere.

Sorry I just notice these things for some reason. I'm kind of nosy when it comes to what tools other people use.

Sberry
07-26-2007, 08:25 AM
My Bud does a ton of front end work, axels, drive shaft, brakes, wheel stuff and doesnt own a single snappy, makes most of his living with about 50 wrenches and sockets. If there was a better way he would have found it. Dealer truck doesnt bother stopping there either, no point when we got the store on speed dial.

PeteZ28
07-26-2007, 09:10 AM
I don't want to get in a debate about how good Craftsman tools are, I know they are decent tools, however I must comment on this. The last time I had my car aligned, I took it to sears. If craftsman tools and tool boxes are so good and convenient to swap out. Why is it that all of the mechanics at sears have snappy and mac boxes and tools? I didn't see one craftsman box. And the tools that I that the mechanic that was doing my alignment was using were mac tools. There mere Mac impacts and air ratchets laying around, didn't see one craftsman impact anywhere.

Sorry I just notice these things for some reason. I'm kind of nosy when it comes to what tools other people use.

Probably because most of the techs there worked other places before Sears, and already had their tools.

I will admit, Craftsman boxes are teh junk for a shop environment. Matco probably has the heaviest boxes currently. Still way overpriced but at least far superior in quality. I got my truck brand boxes used for some pretty decent deals so I cannot complain. No way I'd spend $5k+ on a toolbox, ever!

gshuma
07-26-2007, 10:54 AM
I am an old geezer. Almost everyone when they start out collect tools as I did. As you get older you will find that you do the same jobs with fewer tools just as fast. A long time ago an old guy told me about the 90-10 rule. You do 90% of your work with 10% of your tools. If I had it to do over again I would have spent that tool money on my young family.

Grumpy
07-26-2007, 11:07 AM
When you buy snap on tools ,there is a difference,the quality,durability and precision definitely stands out from the rest, . . .
I would say 95% of your top auto mechanics in the country have mostly snap on,mac,and matco.Why cause these tools are the best,and not cause they get credit off the truck,i can go to sears and get approved for thier card in 5 minutes

Let me chime in here at little. I have a couple of friends one who cannot afford SO and other who has been a Ford Mech for over 30 years with ALL SO. The guy with SO will consistently break a socket whereas the other will not.

As for using credit to buy tools whats better: a guy with bad credit/no credit getting the SO dealer to give him tools without interest and a credit check or going to Sears and getting a high interest rate credit card. Pay once a week on payday (interesting how one of the SO dealers in this area always shows on payday) or once a month generally not on a payday.

Many young people today (I remind you many is not all) make poor financial decisions.

Oh, and I wondering out loud here, Heavy Chevy do you have a vested interest in a SO franchise?

c25
07-26-2007, 11:23 AM
I've been real dissapointed with some of the Craftsman stuff I've picked up in the last few years. I bought a set of flare nut wrenches from thier catalog and every single one was defective in one way or another, took them to the store to swap them out and the ones one the shelf were just as bad. Now they've canceled that whole line of wrenches so who knows what kind of push back I'll get if I need to swap one out again. What really upsets me is that I've got some old Craftsman tools that are really well made and if I ever break one I'm going to end up with thier new line of crap.

Since I won't pay for Snap-On or MAC and Craftsman's quality has been slipping I started looking at other brands. I bought some stuff from Kline and that stuff has been treating me real well, no wrenches or sockets yet but I got some electrical tools and I've been pleased with thier performance. I'm not an electrician but I value a quality wire stripper that doesn't cut any strands while taking off insulation.

Sberry
07-26-2007, 11:51 AM
I go with C25 about Sears and I will agree with gshuma about the 90/10 rule. I am with Klein especially on strippers, screwdrivers and nut drivers. A number 2 slotted screwdriver is about 7$ single, cheaper in sets. 6 for a 5/16 nut driver that I use several of for hose clamps and its a lot easier making a 6$ decision about being another one than a 30+ which would buy a whole set of Klein's. The tool truck is something to look forward to maybe but with the proliferation of competitive products and easy acquisition I have no use for them. We have tools today that do the work for less than 20 cents on the dollar, or less, for good stuff. 30 yrs ago this want true but it is now. Like I said, I bought SK 16mm short, 6 pt, 3/8 drive, the one piece for 8 dollars delivered billable in 30 days. Hold it up against the snappy and no difference, does the same work. Just for giggles how much is that walk on from the truck? Assuming I pay cash?

Sberry
07-26-2007, 12:04 PM
I see from the site some of the snappy sockets are reasonable price, I was mistaken, they are only twice as much as SK. A while back my bud walks on the truck and buys an 8mm 1/4 deep, I see its 16 dollars here, was nice of the truck guy to charge 32 for it.

HEAVY CHEVY
07-26-2007, 01:11 PM
Let me chime in here at little. I have a couple of friends one who cannot afford SO and other who has been a Ford Mech for over 30 years with ALL SO. The guy with SO will consistently break a socket whereas the other will not.

As for using credit to buy tools whats better: a guy with bad credit/no credit getting the SO dealer to give him tools without interest and a credit check or going to Sears and getting a high interest rate credit card. Pay once a week on payday (interesting how one of the SO dealers in this area always shows on payday) or once a month generally not on a payday.

Many young people today (I remind you many is not all) make poor financial decisions.

Oh, and I wondering out loud here, Heavy Chevy do you have a vested interest in a SO franchise?

I guess this subject is just a matter of opinion.I personally like snap on tools,but not all my tools are snap on,I dont see how buying tools that make you money is a poor financial descision.I have never said craftsman tools are junk,I think there very respectable tools,and a great value.

Everyone will have there opinion when talking about products,whether its tools,welders,golf clubs,or fishing equipment.
When it comes to tools,snap on makes the best,well worth the money,They are on top for a reason,because there quality has never faded away like other companies,They are high priced and yet people still pay,no need to throw together package deals or rebadge junk like mac,matco or craftsman,
Snap on is the leader in hand tools,all the others are just followers;)

Sberry
07-26-2007, 01:36 PM
Snapon has invested heavily in specialized marketing that has made them extremely effective and willing to settle for less customers at a higher profit, same game Harley finally figured out. I admire Harley for this, a good move to go to upscale customers with fatter wallets and its a good move for snappy to target this potential pool of long term customers. Very profitable customers, fervently dedicated all along the way.
Some of my thought is just economics, say that one is actually 10% better, it costs twice as much to make to get this 10 points, seems they are on the right track to being able to charge 10 times. In theory doubling the effort in mfg should double the quality, should be worth twice the price if it was truly competitive on that basis.

Sully2
07-26-2007, 01:50 PM
"They are on top for a reason..."

Everyone that has seen a "Craftsman" truck pull up to a truck dealer....raise their hand!!....:D

PeteZ28
07-26-2007, 01:55 PM
Sberry, even Harley is starting to shy away from that business model of high prices to a limited audience.

Seen the new commercial, touting the low monthly payments and low starting prices on the 883 Sportster? Actually, they have been playing the entry level price card for about 10 years with that bike.

Snap On, Mac, Matco, Cornwell, etc have business models that rely SOLEY on image and convenience. Yes they all make a good product but often not at 2 to 10x the price. And none will tell you the truth about who's product you are really buying.

Wait, isn't that really the subject of this thread???

crawler
07-26-2007, 02:34 PM
I guess this subject is just a matter of opinion.I personally like snap on tools,but not all my tools are snap on,I dont see how buying tools that make you money is a poor financial descision.I have never said craftsman tools are junk,I think there very respectable tools,and a great value.

Everyone will have there opinion when talking about products,whether its tools,welders,golf clubs,or fishing equipment.
When it comes to tools,snap on makes the best,well worth the money,They are on top for a reason,because there quality has never faded away like other companies,They are high priced and yet people still pay,no need to throw together package deals or rebadge junk like mac,matco or craftsman,
Snap on is the leader in hand tools,all the others are just followers;)

You say you never said craftsman tools are junk in the second sentence, but you seem to contradict yourself in the last sentence (no need to throw together package deals or rebadge junk like mac,matco or craftsman,).

I have several snap on tools (ratchets and sockets) as well as Mac, Cornwell, Craftsman, SK, and Kobalt (when they were made by Williams) at home. They all seem so work well, but I prefer Mac ratchets since they feel better in my hand.

Craftsman tools are not as nice in fit or finish and certainly don't feel as good on my hands as Mac or Snap on, but the value is hard to beat. Current craftsman ratchets stink.

Only way I can afford Snap on or Mac tools is at flea markets or from the Mac truck. I've gotten good deals on repo tools.

Some tools made by Snap on really are the best out there. I have a Snap on pitman arm puller. Nothing works as well as this one.

Grumpy
07-26-2007, 03:59 PM
Maybe the question should be asked and specifically answered: Where are Snap-On, MAC, Matco, and Craftsman, etc. tools actually manufactured? Like where is the manuf plant and not the assembly plant. My guess would be, and I'll probably hear about this, assembled overseas with parts made in ________________ (fill in the blank). High priced stuff is not necessiarly made in the USA.

If we were engaged in an all out world war (a very real possibility) could we manufacture the products needed to be the victor or will we be relagated to the bottom?

I'm not so sure we actually manufacture all these great products. Any opinions?

crawler
07-26-2007, 04:06 PM
Maybe the question should be asked and specifically answered: Where are Snap-On, MAC, Matco, and Craftsman, etc. tools actually manufactured? Like where is the manuf plant and not the assembly plant. My guess would be, and I'll probably hear about this, assembled overseas with parts made in ________________ (fill in the blank). High priced stuff is not necessiarly made in the USA.

If we were engaged in an all out world war (a very real possibility) could we manufacture the products needed to be the victor or will we be relagated to the bottom?

I'm not so sure we actually manufacture all these great products. Any opinions?

Matco, Craftsman, Kobalt (what lowes sells now), Allen, KD tools, Napa, and are made by Danaher Corp. As far as I know, they're still made in the states.

http://www.danaher.com/

Sberry
07-26-2007, 08:44 PM
Is Allen part of the group? I also agree Snappy has some of the finest specialized tools and I like my Blue Point flare tool set even though I had to repair it but it isnt the value of the Ridgid for 30$ at the box store.

Sberry
07-26-2007, 08:49 PM
Its a mistake to take the low road, no one respects a cheap Harley anymore. It would be a mistake for Snappy to do anything but what they are doing right now, no one would respect discount Snapon, like Quizinart and Rolex. They have a good business model that works, they read all the books, they got to do the least work to make the most money and Snappy is the leader in this game. You get no argument from me that they are not the best.

Grumpy
07-26-2007, 10:19 PM
Good so far. So where is Snap-On's manufacturing plant located? Could one go on a tour of the facility?

bpickell
07-26-2007, 11:43 PM
I bought SK 16mm short, 6 pt, 3/8 drive, the one piece for 8 dollars delivered billable in 30 days. Hold it up against the snappy and no difference, does the same work. Just for giggles how much is that walk on from the truck? Assuming I pay cash?

Snap-on $11.32 For Flank Drive
Blue-point $1.65

Mac $10.69

Can't find them on Matco's website.

Sberry
07-27-2007, 09:36 AM
I was surprised at the cost of snappy from the site, not bad. I think we got dealers that gouge that adds to the reputation. If the truck would have been here I would have paid that at the time.

malibu101
07-27-2007, 10:39 AM
I was surprised at the cost of snappy from the site, not bad. I think we got dealers that gouge that adds to the reputation......
Not trying to defend Snapon but--The driver I deal with charges what the current price sheet (same as on-line) says.
No more, no less.
Just wanted to add that.

Sberry
07-27-2007, 10:53 AM
The dealer here acted insulted I wanted to pay cash, charges extra for that. Treaded the kid that bought the 600$ battery impact on time like gold. Screw him, I buy 2 Milwuakees, twice as good for same money.

bpickell
07-27-2007, 12:14 PM
The dealer here acted insulted I wanted to pay cash, charges extra for that. Treaded the kid that bought the 600$ battery impact on time like gold. Screw him, I buy 2 Milwuakees, twice as good for same money.

yeah, that's kind of strange. My friend that is the Mac distributer prefers either cash or credit on the mac card. The Mac card is better since he gets a kick back at the end of the quarter on purchases made on the card. But cash he loves that as well. Usually gives a discount if paying cash.

malibu101
07-27-2007, 01:33 PM
The dealer here acted insulted I wanted to pay cash, charges extra for that.

Extra for cash on the barrelhead! :eek: I can't imagine!
Driver never has a problem with cash. That's the only way I've ever paid him.
Now that you mention it, I guess I do get a discount for paying cash too!
The final price, which includes tax, gets rounded down to the closest dollar :rolleyes:

Hotfoot
07-27-2007, 03:10 PM
Extra for cash on the barrelhead! :eek: I can't imagine!
Driver never has a problem with cash. That's the only way I've ever paid him.
Now that you mention it, I guess I do get a discount for paying cash too!
The final price, which includes tax, gets rounded down to the closest dollar :rolleyes:

'tried to check into a major hotel lately using cash?? They'll let you "cash out", but have already put a healthy overload "reserve" on your credit card you neede to check in. Don't want to use a credit card? Hmmm...they'll think you are up to something...perhaps a towel Theft ring...or Rustlin' Little Soap bars and Shampoos!! A rental car is another story!! I tried to go all cash, no credit cards about 25 years ago, and had to give up and start flippin' plastic again. Its like you're from outer space when you try to go cash!
I really don't like everthing I buy, everywhere I go being stored in big computers somewhere....but it all is! Even your grocery lists, and what you had for dinner at Mc Donalds. ..George Orwell wasn't too far off...and now various cities are installing "Street Cams"...just like in "1984"...:rolleyes:

Sberry
07-27-2007, 03:52 PM
No, it was more like I wasn't worth the effort since I wasn't a weekly customer, I would have thought someone jumping on at a regular stop would have been a welcome bonus but he musta been beside himself selling the impact that a couple of wrenches seem like no big deal. But he does know where to put his effort. I ain't likely to dump what I got for new, pretty much got it all anyway.

Sberry
07-27-2007, 04:10 PM
Guys that got all that stuff got to guard it too, I got guys that work for me and some loss happens, replacement costs are a factor. Every once in a while a guy asks, you want me to bring some of my own tools, or friends bring their stuff. Nope, we got it all. I dont want to sort around other peoples stuff, pretty quick its, who's socket is that? And if we ain't got enough to go around we will buy more.
I see a tire dealer, nice store out front but the infrastructure is pitiful and about 6 guys looking for the right socket. Man, I would have boxes, 6 of each size I needed. They get the work done and business is good and a little inefficiency dont hurt but some upgrade would pay off and drive several long term costs down.

Bern_F150_4X4
07-28-2007, 09:00 PM
Here's a good example of SO hype... I found this beauty on Craigs List, the dude says it was only used 10 times :confused: and he's lettin' it go for only a grand!

http://www.hobartwelders.com/mboard/attachment.php?attachmentid=23693&stc=1&d=1185674153

Sure looks like my buddies Monkey Wards compressor from the 80's. I'll pass on this one, my 1980 Sears/Devilbiss is still going strong. I had a friend (bodywork/painter) that bought a used 60 gallon 2 cyl Sears upright off the SO truck, $150 delivered. Someone musta got a major screwing on that deal!