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View Full Version : SA200 vs Miller Big 40



Planewelder
02-05-2007, 05:10 PM
I have been lurking here on the site for a while. It seems like most pipeliners are die hard SA200 fans, primarily because of durability and just the way it works with welding pipe. I just picked up a Big 40 which I intend to use for general portable welding..... no thoughts of ever getting good enough to go pipelining at my age, not to mention I don't enjoy freezing myself to death ! I really enjoy the stories and listening to you guys (pipelinres) tell about your business in the north country. Sounds like there is money to be made, but sound like it's not for the faint of heart !
So I said all that to say this.... I see SheildArc has both a Big 40 and an SA200..... what's your opinion of the Big 40 as a general purpose portable machine ? Mine is a think a 1972 machine with the 4 cyl Contenential Engine, with fairly low hours and I got it at a good price.... just needs some running gear and a little TLC. Anybody else have any good or bad experience with the Big 40 ? I'm trying to align some equipment to use to supplement my income when I retire. Thanks ! Sam in Virginia

acwd1950
02-05-2007, 06:54 PM
I have used both. I have a Big 40. The only reason I got it was it was cheap. But to choose between the two. I would go with the Lincoln. You said for general purpose work. They both would make good welders for that. I think the Lincoln has a smoother arc. Just my 2 cents

Steve

ShieldArc
02-05-2007, 08:01 PM
I picked up my 1975 Big40 cheap recently also. I was not able to test its arc fully as the range selector switch needed rebuilding. What little welding i did with it proved that it DOES weld better than a Miller Pro300. I was impressed with the Big40 arc though beings its an alternator machine and it doesnt have a single pc board in it :D . But it doesnt weld as good as a SA-200 though. Im restoring my Big40 now, its going back together. When i get it done i will be testing how it welds and report my results here. Here is a pic of it today. :)

Sberry
02-05-2007, 08:48 PM
Like you said, general work, if it makes sparks then thats what counts. I certainly wouldnt care what was driving it, the avg welder couldnt tell the difference if he couldnt see the color of the machine. Coca Cola did 200,000 taste tests, proved that new Coke was better, which is the biggest seller? Better is usually a perception.

acwd1950
02-05-2007, 08:54 PM
Alternator machine? I believe that its a generator. Because its DC output without diodes.

Steve

Sberry
02-05-2007, 08:55 PM
I ran this one the other day, works just fine, it had been a while since I use it and forget what a good little machine it is. The second one is whats on my truck and you see where the "good one" is. It collects dust.

Pile Buck
02-05-2007, 10:00 PM
In a way I think youíre comparing apples to oranges.
When it comes to engine drives Iím not a big fan of Miller, and yes Iíve run a million of them and owned one for years. Far as SMAW that SA200 will run circles around the Big 40. But as said the average ďgeneralĒ weldor will not know the difference or even care.
But in your case the Big40 might just be the ticket, say later on you buy an LN-25 or equivalent, if you get one of those blow-n-go project burning 50, 60, 70 pounds of Innershield a day, you will run the risk of running that SA200 right in the dirt.;)

At one time there was a certain model Miller donít remember if it was the Big 40 or another, but at full rpm it put out more OCV than the old style feeders could take, we use to back the throttle off just a touch so the wire would feed without striking an arc first. Just some fuel for thought if you run into a deal on an older feeder! :cool:

Sberry
02-06-2007, 12:17 AM
Getting something at a good price will buy a lot of fuel but general may be different to different folks. I am what I would call general and I don't even carry a rod bigger than 1/8 anymore. Does general include heavy excavating equipment or gouging? Maybe it doesn't mean anything but I like something small light and cheap, good on fuel. If you are going to make a diet of handrail and burglar bars then the big 40 might be a bit of overkill.

ShieldArc
02-06-2007, 06:52 AM
Alternator machine? I believe that its a generator. Because its DC output without diodes.

Steve

Miller never made a DC generatore machine. The Big40 has a 3 phase alternator and diodes.

ShieldArc
02-06-2007, 07:04 AM
Planewelder
I would rebuild your range selector switch, all the individual pieces are available. I think that it the Big40s weak spot. The outside 15 contacts can be wire brushed and used if there isnt any arc marks. The inside 3 spring loaded ones i would replace!

acwd1950
02-06-2007, 08:41 AM
Your right my bad! I forgot that the diodes are in the end of the machine. One of those brain fart moments. Do you know what 240 volt kit consist of? Looks to me like just some wire changes.

Steve

Snidley
02-06-2007, 09:42 AM
I have a Miller Big 40 and it's always run well for me. On occasion I do some heavy machinery welding repairs, so the available amps are nice.

As a general machine - as mentioned it might be a little overkill. As for portability please note that it weighs about 1500 lbs (plus cables etc.) so if you want to make it occasionally portable - build a trailer for it. That way you don't have to keep trying to push it or pull it off your truck, you're liable to hurt yourself sooner or later.

Good Luck and have fun.

ShieldArc
02-06-2007, 11:09 AM
Do you know what 240 volt kit consist of? Looks to me like just some wire changes.

Steve

Better call Miller on that one.

Sberry
02-06-2007, 01:12 PM
Dont quote me on this but it seems the AC was about 4000 watts on those?

jamesdart
02-06-2007, 03:16 PM
i fall into the general catoagory, its nice you got a deal, but id sell it and buy a trailblazer or ranger 305. i like lincoln engine drives but that new trailblazer with the 2 generators is bad ***. you can weld from it and run an inverter at the same time, welding off both. the big 40 is way too big and heavy for me. it will tax the payload on most pickup trucks, youd need a dually if you wanted to carry a decent amount of tools and air and gas. or a trailer as said.

Sberry
02-06-2007, 05:18 PM
If I wass headed for a new machine it would probably be a TB too, either that or the Bluestar 6000. If Sam figures he needs a heavy machine then he has a deal.

Planewelder
02-06-2007, 05:42 PM
I have a trailer already for it, cause it was a good deal as well ! I picked up an old state transportation dept trailer that carried some kind of machinery. Anyway it;s about 5 X 7 with a 5200lb axle made of 4" channel with crossmembers every 16" and 8 ply tires. I have a Powerstroke diesel truck so pulling a Big 40 is like pulling a flea.. no problem.

Sberry
02-07-2007, 11:43 AM
Yup, you are set to go then and it wont need to tie up a truck. If you are interested in heavy work you got it, a lot of people buy something and never think what it takes, obviously not the case here. I would be tempted to put a big set of torch bottles on the trailer. If I wasn't quite sure where I was headed I would have a 80CF oxy and 20#lp get up I could tote in my truck so I didn't have to take the ranch and if you want to be really slick add a passport or little maxstar behind the seat. I put an inverter on my pickup for tools for the occasional thing I couldn't do with battery, I bet if you couldn't find a circuit on you could weld small electrode no problem, limited of course but it save toting big stuff. I have 2 rigs myself, my pickup setup that I can deal with 95% of lifes problems with and when there isn't anyway around it I have a heavy truck with it all. I do have a couple trailer mounted but rarely use them, on occasion its nice to have something I can park on the job if needed without robbing from the rest of my stuff.

jamesdart
02-07-2007, 03:11 PM
you really think you can run an inverter type machine from a 12v power inverter? that would be interesting.

Sberry
02-07-2007, 05:15 PM
Mine outputs 2000 watts and surges to 4000. I heard guys said they pull better than 100 out of a 20A circuit, if a guy kept it down to 85 or so by going to a 3/32 7018 or better the AC version. 6011 I am running 85 or 90A running 1/8. Drop down a size there even sometimes, could be pulling 15A or less on many occasions. I would like to try it, will the inverter run on an inverter? That truck likely has heavy alternator and 2 big batteries, you couldnt go pipe lining but you could probably run a rod here and there for simple work. 90% of the time you would likely be near an outlet, keep a nice heavy pc of cord. We know his intent involves a heavy welder but for little stuff I would be looking for a handy cheap way out of it if I was thinking of this as a sideline. It would change my view of machines, if I needed to tack up some burgle bars or gonna cut scraper blades off. What is "retirement" hahahaa Personally been there and done that, cant say I long to crawl under some filthy earthmover and air arc a blade off as a hobby, heck dont want to do it now.

TozziWelding
02-08-2007, 04:14 PM
I now know what an SA 200 is all about. I just picked up a 71' and it runs stick circles around my new Trailblazer. The old Continental engine sounds great at its 1500rpm full load, and the smoothest arc on 5p ever thought of. As nice as an all purpouse machine a trailblazer is, an old Lincoln has it beat hands down on pipe welding.

coalsmoke
02-11-2007, 01:48 PM
I picked up my 1975 Big40 cheap recently also. I was not able to test its arc fully as the range selector switch needed rebuilding. What little welding i did with it proved that it DOES weld better than a Miller Pro300. I was impressed with the Big40 arc though beings its an alternator machine and it doesnt have a single pc board in it :D . But it doesnt weld as good as a SA-200 though. Im restoring my Big40 now, its going back together. When i get it done i will be testing how it welds and report my results here. Here is a pic of it today. :)
That surpirses me, only because I wouldn't have thoght Miller to make a machine that takes a significant step backwards. I have never run the Pro300, so was wondering what was it specifically that you really didn't like about it?


In a way I think youíre comparing apples to oranges.
When it comes to engine drives Iím not a big fan of Miller, and yes Iíve run a million of them and owned one for years.
I thought just the other day you were talking about that Miller 44 you owned and saying that was one of the best all around machines out there, now you don't like em:confused: Correct me if I'm wrong, I might have you confused with someone else.

Pile Buck
02-11-2007, 01:56 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong,

Your wrong!:D :D :D :D


Whatís a Miller 44?:confused:

coalsmoke
02-11-2007, 02:05 PM
Sorry, Trailblazer 55. You and I both know you know what I am talking about;)

So, let me rephrase this:

I thought just the other day you were talking about that Miller Trailblazer 55 you owned and saying that was one of the best all around machines out there, now you don't like em:confused:

Pile Buck
02-11-2007, 02:07 PM
You know it just hit me, Miller use to make a 44-D, and G in the same time zone as my 55-D. The 44-D, or G was primarily SMAW, and GTAW. I still say my 55-D was not in the same league as Lincolnís SAM! Thatís my opinion, and Iím sticking to it! ;) :D :D

coalsmoke
02-11-2007, 02:11 PM
You know it just hit me, Miller use to make a 44-D, and G in the same time zone as my 55-D. The 44-D, or G was primarily SMAW, and GTAW. I still say my 55-D was not in the same league as Lincolnís SAM! Thatís my opinion, and Iím sticking to it! ;) :D :D

Sure, not debating that, the SAM is an amazing machine, if you can pack it around. I was going to write this big long deal, but I'll save my breath. In the general welding category, miller has lincoln beat all to h3ll and back. Same with the tig market, but lincoln still owns the pipeline market. We're talking about general welding in the thread, are we not?

Pile Buck
02-11-2007, 02:15 PM
I thought just the other day you were talking about that Miller Trailblazer 55 you owned and saying that was one of the best all around machines out there, now you don't like em:confused:
Here again youíre wrong:D , I never said that. Where the he!! is Jhall? Jeff and I have had this conversation many times. Jeff owns both the 55-D, and the SAM, if memory serves Jeff agrees with me.;)

Now what you might be thinking of, Iíve said my Gold Star is one of the best SMAW machines Iíve ever used, but I havenít seen an engine on it:confused: . Itís big enough to have a 455 olds under the hood, hey maybe I should open that puppy up:D :D :D :D

coalsmoke
02-11-2007, 02:19 PM
For the last time, not debating the arc qualities of a SAM or other Lincoln generator style machine.

Pile Buck
02-11-2007, 02:23 PM
We're talking about general welding in the thread, are we not?
If I said it once Iíve said it a million times, Iím not a pipe weldor, never claimed to be a pipe weldor, just because I can weld pipe, and even have 4 or 5 pipe certs, (somewhere:confused: ) does not make me a pipe weldor, does it not? Whenever I talk welding Iím talking ďGeneralĒ welding:p :p . Just because I like Lincoln engine drives, you think you can pick on me:p :p ! Now where the he!! are all the Lincoln guys?:D :D :D

coalsmoke
02-11-2007, 02:31 PM
If I said it once I’ve said it a million times, I’m not a pipe weldor, never claimed to be a pipe weldor, just because I can weld pipe, and even have 4 or 5 pipe certs, (somewhere:confused: ) does not make me a pipe weldor, does it not? Whenever I talk welding I’m talking “General” welding:p :p . Just because I like Lincoln engine drives, you think you can pick on me:p :p ! Now where the he!! are all the Lincoln guys?:D :D :D

They are letting you dig your own holes.:D Pilebucks are good at that, no? ;) I guess I must have been mistaken, for some reason I thought I remembered you saying you really liked all that the TB 55-D did for you. After all, you did keep it for over 10 years or so.

The new lincoln guys buying the 300Ds seem to have their hands full with their own issues. I have now talked with 3 pipe guys in the past 4 months who each bought new 300Ds in the past year, all 3 complained that the arc isn't what it used to be or should be compared to the older classics. Lincoln better get their butt in gear because the reputation boat only floats so far.

Pile Buck
02-11-2007, 02:42 PM
I guess I must have been mistaken, for some reason I thought I remembered you saying you really liked all that the TB 55-D did for you. After all, you did keep it for over 10 years or so.
Oh I know very well what your problem isÖÖÖÖÖÖÖYouíre still upset with me, because CalWeld and I are / were picking on you over there!:p :D :D :D :D


No, I was never impressed with the 55-D, it was a mistake to buy it, but I just couldnít come up with the extra 3,000.00 $ís for the SAM. In 1983 the 9,000.00 $ís I paid for the 55-D really tapped me. If I would have only known, because I made nothing but money with that 55-D!;)

coalsmoke
02-11-2007, 02:58 PM
Oh I know very well what your problem isÖÖÖÖÖÖÖYouíre still upset with me, because CalWeld and I are / were picking on you over there!:p :D :D


No, I was never impressed with the 55-D, it was a mistake to buy it, but I just couldnít come up with the extra 3,000.00 $ís for the SAM. In 1983 the 9,000.00 $ís I paid for the 55-D really tapped me. If I would have only known, because I made nothing but money with that 55-D!;)

I don't hold grudges. You'd know if I did. What's that line you got drilled into you sub-conscious that you can't stop repeating, oh right YOU'RE WRONG!:D :D :D :D

PB, you're a confusing guy. :rolleyes: :o

Pile Buck
02-11-2007, 03:17 PM
PB, you're a confusing guy. :rolleyes: :o

No Iím not!

Itís just when I zig, you zag, now try and keep up will ya!:D

Whatís the deal you canít keep up with an old guy? :D :D :D

coalsmoke
02-11-2007, 03:23 PM
No Iím not!

Itís just when I zig, you zag, now try and keep up will ya!:D

Whatís the deal you canít keep up with an old guy? :D :D :D

Naw, just you're eyesight has gone to the point that you've long since lost sight of me and started chasing Buicks instead :D

calweld
02-11-2007, 03:50 PM
. In the general welding category, miller has lincoln beat all to h3ll and back.

Huh???? Since when???? Are you an authority on this??? I'll put my Commanders up against anything Miller has to offer anyday, I've owned and run both, have you???? Granted, the Commander doesn't have that "pure DC arc" everybody swoons over, but for day in and day out welding, it's hard to beat. I think Jeff went somewhere warm for a little while, I'm sure he'll post his impressions of his Vantage once he gets back.

calweld
02-11-2007, 03:56 PM
Coal, what pile's trying to say is he made money with that machine, he rented it out. If I was on a job, needed 400 - 500 amps, and "whatever" machine was available, I'd grab it, I would "learn to like it" , you make do with what you have. Especially if I was the boss, I tell the guys "live with it," and then tell a story about how I had to weld 6" thick plate when I was a kid, full pen, with a 225 amp buzz box.:D :D

coalsmoke
02-11-2007, 03:56 PM
Huh???? Since when???? Are you an authority on this??? I'll put my Commanders up against anything Miller has to offer anyday, I've owned and run both, have you???? Granted, the Commander doesn't have that "pure DC arc" everybody swoons over, but for day in and day out welding, it's hard to beat. I think Jeff went somewhere warm for a little while, I'm sure he'll post his impressions of his Vantage once he gets back.

I wasn't specific enough i guess when i said general welding. I was talking the 300 amp class machines that you see on 90% of all jobsites and service trucks. I wasn't talking mining, pipe, offshore, etc. As soon as you get into vantage territory, Miller just doesn't have the same offerings as the Lincolns.

coalsmoke
02-11-2007, 03:57 PM
Coal, what pile's trying to say is he made money with that machine, he rented it out. If I was on a job, needed 400 - 500 amps, and "whatever" machine was available, I'd grab it, I would "learn to like it" , you make do with what you have. Especially if I was the boss, I tell the guys "live with it," and then tell a story about how I had to weld 6" thick plate when I was a kid, full pen, with a 225 amp buzz box.:D :D

hehehh, you forgot the bit about the freezing temperatures:D I guess I just heard him talk so much about it that I figured he was happy with it.

Sberry
02-11-2007, 06:46 PM
Man, I was trying to think of something witty to top you guys in this thread, just cant.

ShieldArc
02-11-2007, 08:48 PM
That surpirses me, only because I wouldn't have thought Miller to make a machine that takes a significant step backwards. I have never run the Pro300, so was wondering what was it specifically that you really didn't like about it?

.

You thought wrong:D ;) Just had to do that. hehe
Miller went backward many times since ITW bought them. Heck, did you ever weld with a MM35 or MM200 made in the late 1970s?
Pro300 is not suitable for pipe welding in my opinion. Im sure your 302 kicks its a$$. Sorry example of a new product. :rolleyes:

ShieldArc
02-11-2007, 08:54 PM
Now what you might be thinking of, Iíve said my Gold Star is one of the best SMAW machines Iíve ever used, but I havenít seen an engine on it:confused: . Itís big enough to have a 455 olds under the hood, hey maybe I should open that puppy up:D :D :D :D

Nice bullet-proof Linde next to your Gold Star. :)

ShieldArc
02-11-2007, 08:59 PM
Sure, not debating that, the SAM is an amazing machine, if you can pack it around. I was going to write this big long deal, but I'll save my breath. In the general welding category, miller has lincoln beat all to h3ll and back. Same with the tig market, but lincoln still owns the pipeline market. We're talking about general welding in the thread, are we not?

Grrrrrr... Miller has been trying to catch up to Lincoln for the last 8yrs....:rolleyes:

ShieldArc
02-11-2007, 09:03 PM
The new lincoln guys buying the 300Ds seem to have their hands full with their own issues. I have now talked with 3 pipe guys in the past 4 months who each bought new 300Ds in the past year, all 3 complained that the arc isn't what it used to be or should be compared to the older classics. Lincoln better get their butt in gear because the reputation boat only floats so far.

The worst welding 300D still out welds anything Millers got. :rolleyes:

ShieldArc
02-11-2007, 09:06 PM
Huh???? Since when???? Are you an authority on this??? I'll put my Commanders up against anything Miller has to offer anyday, I've owned and run both, have you???? Granted, the Commander doesn't have that "pure DC arc" everybody swoons over, but for day in and day out welding, it's hard to beat. I think Jeff went somewhere warm for a little while, I'm sure he'll post his impressions of his Vantage once he gets back.

I think coals sunglasses are tinted blue. :D

ShieldArc
02-11-2007, 09:15 PM
I wasn't specific enough i guess when i said general welding. I was talking the 300 amp class machines that you see on 90% of all jobsites and service trucks. .

I'll be specific, Miller machines work better for weldors with limited welding experience. :p

calweld
02-11-2007, 09:16 PM
Poor Coalsmoke, he's being picked on everywhere he goes today:( :( :(

Can't find a safe corner of the internet:p These big old bullies keep ganging up on him ;) :D

Pile Buck
02-11-2007, 09:16 PM
I think coals sunglasses are tinted blue. :D

Well you certainly gave Coal both barrels in short order!:D :D :D

Maybe Coal gets compensated for his endorsement of blue, like other have here of the 120-volt glue guns.:rolleyes:

rvannatta
02-11-2007, 09:36 PM
I picked up my 1975 Big40 cheap recently also. I was not able to test its arc fully as the range selector switch needed rebuilding. What little welding i did with it proved that it DOES weld better than a Miller Pro300. I was impressed with the Big40 arc though beings its an alternator machine and it doesnt have a single pc board in it :D . But it doesnt weld as good as a SA-200 though. Im restoring my Big40 now, its going back together. When i get it done i will be testing how it welds and report my results here. Here is a pic of it today. :)

You will like the Big 40. We had oneof that vintage that we rcently got rid of.
ours was a gasser. A nice welding machine, but ours had spent its life on a service truck
sitting outside and was rusting away. It's a time honored and quality welder.

ShieldArc
02-11-2007, 09:45 PM
I have to admit during the 70s 80s and early 90s Lincoln did NOT impress me. But for the last 8 or so years, Lincoln has spent more on research and development than Miller, Hobart, and ESAB all combined! When i bought my first Ranger 305g about 7yrs ago, Miller insinuated in their new catalog that the Ranger would run hot because of the full welder case. Well low and behold, Miller come out with a full case the next year, hehehe.
When i bought my Power Mig 300, a couple years later they come out with a Power Mig 350. I asked the rep what was the difference between that one and mine. He said Miller come out with the MillerMatic350 that has the same rating as the PowerMig300 and they had to change from 300 to 350 because people would think the Miller has more power. Miller advertising sure is clever. hehehe :D Dont get me wrong, Miller does make excellent machines, i just think they are a close second place. But their advertising department is in first place. :D

ShieldArc
02-11-2007, 09:47 PM
Well you certainly gave Coal both barrels in short order!:D :D :D

Maybe Coal gets compensated for his endorsement of blue, like other have here of the 120-volt glue guns.:rolleyes:

Ahhh, he can take it, he's a good guy. :D

ShieldArc
02-11-2007, 10:10 PM
You will like the Big 40. We had oneof that vintage that we rcently got rid of.
ours was a gasser. A nice welding machine, but ours had spent its life on a service truck
sitting outside and was rusting away. It's a time honored and quality welder.

Mines going back together now, i got back the frame from being sandblasted and powder coated.

Planewelder
02-11-2007, 10:29 PM
Sheildarc - your machines looks nice ! Really a barebones restoration. I guess you like it for something or you wouldn't put that much effort into bringing back to life. I want to at least paint mine up and get it out of the weather. Do you know if the control panel is still available ? Mine like most is faded to unreadable. Are you painting your sheetmetal with Miller paint or what are you using ? I wonder if filter capacitord would smooth out an A/C generator's D/C output ? Guess it would be a massive Cap though...... if I ever go pipelining I'll have to get an SA200 so I don't get beat up !!! If nothing else they seem to have a cult following and hold their value well.

Planewelder
02-11-2007, 10:31 PM
SheildArc ..... is your air cleaner hose a miller part or did you find a hose that would work from some other application ? I need one for my machine.

ShieldArc
02-11-2007, 11:12 PM
Sheildarc - your machines looks nice ! Really a barebones restoration. I guess you like it for something or you wouldn't put that much effort into bringing back to life. I want to at least paint mine up and get it out of the weather. Do you know if the control panel is still available ? Mine like most is faded to unreadable. Are you painting your sheetmetal with Miller paint or what are you using ? I wonder if filter capacitord would smooth out an A/C generator's D/C output ? Guess it would be a massive Cap though...... if I ever go pipelining I'll have to get an SA200 so I don't get beat up !!! If nothing else they seem to have a cult following and hold their value well. SheildArc ..... is your air cleaner hose a miller part or did you find a hose that would work from some other application ? I need one for my machine.

I rebuild machines as a hobby. As far as the paint goes, i took a piece that wasnt faded to a paint supply and they matched it. Im painting it Nason ful-thane 2k. I heard that the blue on the old Ford tractors is close to miller blue.
The guy i got the machine from bought a new face plate for it about 2yrs ago and that hose wasnt available so he matched one up to work at NAPA i think. Be sure not to use the hot air to the air cleaner unless you need it and if you do, only slide the clamp connector up to about 1/2" from the air cleaner intake pipe. Its only used when the temp is between 20 and 40 degrees and your carb is icing up and stalling.
Miller already did the work to smooth the arc.

coalsmoke
02-12-2007, 03:57 AM
You thought wrong:D ;) Just had to do that. hehe
Miller went backward many times since ITW bought them. Heck, did you ever weld with a MM35 or MM200 made in the late 1970s?
Pro300 is not suitable for pipe welding in my opinion. Im sure your 302 kicks its a$$. Sorry example of a new product. :rolleyes:
See, i was almost about to say thanks for that piece of information,


I think coals sunglasses are tinted blue. :D
but then read this post:rolleyes:


I'll be specific, Miller machines work better for weldors with limited welding experience. :p
and then read this one too:eek: :D I have used one of those old MM35s, and come to think of it, it did everything I could have asked it too. Unfortunately as far as engine drives go, I don't have the luxury up here of trying multiple machines before buying. If you want to try one, you either have to find a rig welder with one that will let you test run it, or, buy the thing and hope for the best. Anyways, thanks for the heads up on the Pro300, you're only the third person I know that has ever run one, but the first that doesn't own it and doesn't like it. In the past I have run a SA200 or 250 on 7018, but found it to have a real watery arc, the guy who owned it said it had aluminum windings and that he didn't like them, I personally don't know if that holds any ground, but I wasn't impressed with it out of position. Other than that I have run a couple different miller engine drives. Still, I am routinely impressed with the capability of this little 500lb new trailblazer. I would one day like to compare it against a classic though running 5p+. 7018 runs smooth regardless, but I think the 5p+ would really show the differences better. If it were and ideal world, I'd have a Trailblazer pro 350D and a Pipepro304 there at the same time, and run through all 4. That would be a test that would really tell the story both on the capabilities and ergonomics of the machines.

coalsmoke
02-12-2007, 03:58 AM
Poor Coalsmoke, he's being picked on everywhere he goes today:( :(

Can't find a safe corner of the internet:p These big old bullies keep ganging up on him ;)

Yeah, tough day in the cyber shop is for sure:o Its ok though, I understand you Lincoln guys got to stick together, you know, just like the wholly mammoths did:D


Well you certainly gave Coal both barrels in short order!:D

Maybe Coal gets compensated for his endorsement of blue, like other have here of the 120-volt glue guns.:rolleyes:
Hahahaha, not likely, at least Miller hasn't made that offer yet:cool: You won't find me endorsing something if I know it to be a sour deal. Who knows, I might even be caught one day with a big lump of grey welder on the back of my rig. ;)

ShieldArc
02-12-2007, 07:13 AM
Hahahaha, not likely, at least Miller hasn't made that offer yet:cool: ;)

Well, if you have a new 303 trailblazer next yr will will know then. :D

ShieldArc
02-12-2007, 07:19 AM
About 7yrs ago Lincoln came out with the Ranger 305g and still has it. Meanwhile in the same period Miller came out with the Trailblazer 251NT, 280NT, 301, and 302. Lincoln did it right the first time. hehehe
Or do you sell more welders by coming out with new model machines? :D

Sberry
02-12-2007, 07:47 AM
Taste tests say new coke taste better but classic sells more,,, go figure.

ShieldArc
02-12-2007, 08:14 PM
SheildArc ..... is your air cleaner hose a miller part or did you find a hose that would work from some other application ? I need one for my machine.

I looked on the aftermarker hose for some numbers for you. What i found is these.
4610 EBP01 80MH62 ZWS 0414 Made in USA. Good Luck!!

coalsmoke
02-12-2007, 09:31 PM
Is it not a common practice to be able to run 1/4" 6010 on a 300D classic? I found it interesting that they are rated for up to 7/32. I thought, why stop at 7/32 and who actually uses 7/32:confused: :rolleyes: I know my powderpuff TB will continuously burn 3/16" without even flinching, it loads the engine but doesn't bog it down in the least, and I still have enough room on the dial that it might very well run 1/4" if I tried. So, what's the deal with the Lincoln then which has at the very least another 50 amps on paper, and probably another 100A in real world practice than my TB302? Is there some other reason Lincoln is not rating their machines for a full 1/4"? The other interesting bit is that they rate their Pipeliner 200 at the same capabilities. Did someone at Lincoln mess up in the marketting department:confused: :rolleyes:

Sberry
02-12-2007, 09:37 PM
We aint over thinkin this is we?

coalsmoke
02-12-2007, 09:39 PM
We aint over thinkin this is we?

You won't discover and learn too much if you don't question things. Some people are naturally inquisitive and some just don't care:cool:

Sberry
02-12-2007, 10:16 PM
Ok, just as a hypothetical question, how much more would you save or make in a year if you were to upgrade machines? Personally, its just me, but I like these small footprint/weight machines if they will do the job. You got a ways to go so it makes some sense looking at the future or keeping your eye out for a deal on something. You are right, it means more to some than others, you would likely notice machine differences way more than I would anyway, you are almost assuredly a way better welder than I am, especially anymore, I haven't ran anything better than a Bobcat for a long time and even then its so limited that I don't really give it much thought, usually I think about women just as soon as the hood drops anyway.

ShieldArc
02-12-2007, 11:13 PM
Is it not a common practice to be able to run 1/4" 6010 on a 300D classic? I found it interesting that they are rated for up to 7/32. I thought, why stop at 7/32 and who actually uses 7/32:confused: :rolleyes: I know my powderpuff TB will continuously burn 3/16" without even flinching, it loads the engine but doesn't bog it down in the least, and I still have enough room on the dial that it might very well run 1/4" if I tried. So, what's the deal with the Lincoln then which has at the very least another 50 amps on paper, and probably another 100A in real world practice than my TB302? Is there some other reason Lincoln is not rating their machines for a full 1/4"? The other interesting bit is that they rate their Pipeliner 200 at the same capabilities. Did someone at Lincoln mess up in the marketting department:confused: :rolleyes:

Their adv dept arent liars and manipulators like millers adv dept.......................:p

ShieldArc
02-12-2007, 11:17 PM
You won't discover and learn too much if you don't question things. Some people are naturally inquisitive and some just don't care:cool:
Dont forget the shortcut i told u before how to make your life easier. :)

coalsmoke
02-12-2007, 11:57 PM
Ok, just as a hypothetical question, how much more would you save or make in a year if you were to upgrade machines? Personally, its just me, but I like these small footprint/weight machines if they will do the job. You got a ways to go so it makes some sense looking at the future or keeping your eye out for a deal on something. You are right, it means more to some than others, you would likely notice machine differences way more than I would anyway, you are almost assuredly a way better welder than I am, especially anymore, I haven't ran anything better than a Bobcat for a long time and even then its so limited that I don't really give it much thought, usually I think about women just as soon as the hood drops anyway.

You're right, right now I wouldn't save any real amount and the small and light footprint of the Tb302 rocks, considering the output I get out of it. It does all that I need and then some and what I would gain in better fuel economy of a 1800rpm diesel I'd lose partially in packing around the heavier machine, but, being that I'm 7 weeks from finishing this crim degree, I have been getting my ducks lined up for starting on my welding certification. I should be good to hit the pressure stuff in about a year or so, depending on tech school wait times. Because I can challenge all the preliminary welding training, I can conceiveably be enrolled in the four month B pressure level by end of summer. It seems like a ways off, but time's not slowing down any. Sooo.... I've been keeping my eye open looking at various used pipeline capable machines. I don't think I'd want to spend $12,000 on a new 300D right out of the gate, I'd probably be better off to get a used one that can make me some money first. Anyways, if a used deal were to pop up around here I'd consider picking it up for that reason. My apologies if you guys are getting tired of all the questions regarding everything lincoln and pipeline related:o



Dont forget the shortcut i told u before how to make your life easier. :)
ShieldArc, I don't remember the specific wording, but was it something along the lines of "buy a lincoln and don't worry about it"?

coalsmoke
02-13-2007, 12:11 AM
Dont forget the shortcut i told u before how to make your life easier. :)

haah, I believe this is the one:D


You just cant get a miller out of your mind, hehhehee. If your going pipelining a lincoln will make your life better in many ways. :D

ShieldArc
02-13-2007, 08:45 AM
yup
Remember, thinking too hard can cause you more problems. ;)

coalsmoke
02-13-2007, 12:22 PM
yup
Remember, thinking too hard can cause you more problems. ;)

Hey, speaking of thinking too hard, is there a conversion plate out there that lets you bolt up a 4 cyl kubota to a Redface? If redfaces are as good as everyone on pipe says they are, I'm surprised that people are still feeding them all of that gas. Would a person have to outfit the kubota with a small DC generator for the exciter, or can the exciter just take some 12V power from a battery?

ShieldArc
02-13-2007, 12:57 PM
The most popular conversion now is a Yanmar diesel. Anyway, pipeliners usually get their gas and fuel supplied on the job free. :p

coalsmoke
02-13-2007, 02:42 PM
The most popular conversion now is a Yanmar diesel. Anyway, pipeliners usually get their gas and fuel supplied on the job free. :p

Well shoot, if that's a pretty universal thing for fuel to be supplied on the pipelines then no point messing with the old gasser unless it kicks it. I wonder if that's also the case with smaller field jobs and process plant type work? I sort of got the impression that might be bring your own. I saw the Yanmar conversion being advertised on American Welding Supply, which is what gave me the idea about the kubota. I don't know a thing about Yanmars, the name gives this north american boy the willies:D Any ideas what the pricing is on one of those Yanmar conversions, solely from a curiosity perspective, don't do any serious digging on it for me;)

ShieldArc
02-13-2007, 06:08 PM
Well shoot, if that's a pretty universal thing for fuel to be supplied on the pipelines then no point messing with the old gasser unless it kicks it. I wonder if that's also the case with smaller field jobs and process plant type work? I sort of got the impression that might be bring your own. I saw the Yanmar conversion being advertised on American Welding Supply, which is what gave me the idea about the kubota. I don't know a thing about Yanmars, the name gives this north american boy the willies:D Any ideas what the pricing is on one of those Yanmar conversions, solely from a curiosity perspective, don't do any serious digging on it for me;)
I think only the cross country pipeliners get filled up daily on the right of way.
Seems like i heard of an SA-200 with the conversion is around $8500. from the guy in Louisiana.

coalsmoke
02-13-2007, 06:17 PM
I think only the cross country pipeliners get filled up daily on the right of way.
Seems like i heard of an SA-200 with the conversion is around $8500. from the guy in Louisiana.

Oh Man!:eek::eek: Considering how close that price is to a new classic, a person would need to really be in love with that sa200 arc. I think I'd rather just figure out my own conversion using an engine I knew something about long before spending that kind of money, or, just keep running it on gas. I figured it should use about $35-$45/ day for the 4 cyl continental gasser, does that sound about right?

Sberry
02-13-2007, 07:36 PM
I used my SA last summer just to have it run a little and it saved me from running a cord or some lead. I need to fix the idle down so it hi idle more than it needed to but you got the gas about right, I recall I poured about 15 gallons in, thought back and figured I could have done the work for about a dollar in electric, ha

coalsmoke
02-13-2007, 07:55 PM
I used my SA last summer just to have it run a little and it saved me from running a cord or some lead. I need to fix the idle down so it hi idle more than it needed to but you got the gas about right, I recall I poured about 15 gallons in, thought back and figured I could have done the work for about a dollar in electric, ha

Ok thanks. Yeah I hear you about the electric vs gas price to run. Anytime I am doing any tig I'm running it off of the TB302, and that gets hungry on the wallet after a while.:rolleyes: I am routinely surprised at just how much gas this little Kohler will suck up when its working hard, especially with 3/16" rod or gouging with 1/4" carbons, I can make that 12gallons dissapear in 8 hours:eek: I imagine it would go even faster running big wire.

ShieldArc
02-13-2007, 08:04 PM
Oh Man!:eek::eek: Considering how close that price is to a new classic, a person would need to really be in love with that sa200 arc. I think I'd rather just figure out my own conversion using an engine I knew something about long before spending that kind of money, or, just keep running it on gas. I figured it should use about $35-$45/ day for the 4 cyl continental gasser, does that sound about right?
What you should of said was, ya got to out of your mind and nuts to buy a $11,500. pro300. :D
A gas SA-200 might use a gallon an hour for normal welding usage. About like your 302. :p

coalsmoke
02-13-2007, 08:13 PM
What you should of said was, ya got to out of your mind and nuts to buy a $11,500. pro300. :D
A gas SA-200 might use a gallon an hour for normal welding usage. About like your 302. :p

Well your experience with the Pro 300 now explains why I don't see any of them out there:eek: I guess if the SA200 is where its at, then spending the money for the engine conversion would eventually pay itself off, especially considering the rest of the sa200 is rebuildable. That gas usage bit is exactly what I am thinking, a sa200 would only use another 25% more than the Kohler, not a whole lot of difference considering we're talking 45 years of technology down the road:rolleyes: A while back you told me that the sa200 maxes out at 300 amps, do you know what a semi-realistic duty cycle might be for that? I know you said it can burn 3/16" all day long in 4th gear, but I'm wondering if a person could survive burning 1/4" rod on it. I've been looking through the old owners manuals for the red face sa200 off the lincoln website, but all I can find out is 200A @60% and its got 5 gears:o :o :)

ShieldArc
02-13-2007, 09:05 PM
Well your experience with the Pro 300 now explains why I don't see any of them out there:eek: I guess if the SA200 is where its at, then spending the money for the engine conversion would eventually pay itself off, especially considering the rest of the sa200 is rebuildable. That gas usage bit is exactly what I am thinking, a sa200 would only use another 25% more than the Kohler, not a whole lot of difference considering we're talking 45 years of technology down the road:rolleyes: A while back you told me that the sa200 maxes out at 300 amps, do you know what a semi-realistic duty cycle might be for that? I know you said it can burn 3/16" all day long in 4th gear, but I'm wondering if a person could survive burning 1/4" rod on it. I've been looking through the old owners manuals for the red face sa200 off the lincoln website, but all I can find out is 200A @60% and its got 5 gears:o :o :)
My Ranger uses about the same as my redface ive noticed. I think if your making at least $50.00 or more an hour welding, $2.50 for fuel is not an issue. Now what are you going to be using 1/4 rod on??? Ive never burned one. I burn 3/16 in 3rd or 4th gear, depending what arc charactaristic i need. I use 5th gear for air arcing. I use 3rd gear for pipe thawing. I can burn 1/8 rod in 1st, 2nd, and 3rd gear. If you learn and understand how to use and adjust a Lincoln generator, nothing else will satisfy you. :) If you been looking at old SA-200 manuals, read, how to adjust the arc section, it the beginning. It will explain a little. :)

coalsmoke
02-14-2007, 12:38 AM
My Ranger uses about the same as my redface ive noticed. I think if your making at least $50.00 or more an hour welding, $2.50 for fuel is not an issue. Now what are you going to be using 1/4 rod on??? Ive never burned one. I burn 3/16 in 3rd or 4th gear, depending what arc charactaristic i need. I use 5th gear for air arcing. I use 3rd gear for pipe thawing. I can burn 1/8 rod in 1st, 2nd, and 3rd gear. If you learn and understand how to use and adjust a Lincoln generator, nothing else will satisfy you. :) If you been looking at old SA-200 manuals, read, how to adjust the arc section, it the beginning. It will explain a little. :)

Shield, thank you again. I agree about the fuel charge. It would seem that I had listened to a tech that said lots of pipelining up here is done with 1/4" rod and a pipeliner can't handle running that rod, course you may have seen on the Miler site that is apparently NOT the case, that just like in the states, its mostly 5/32-3/16":rolleyes: That'll teach me. I've been reading the Lincoln manual like you said about the different 'gears', and its funny, people say that these machines don't have adjustable arc force and therefore are not as good as the new ones, but it would appear that that is just a pile of BS, they probably have more adjustment than the little bit of inductance / slope adjustment the ranger and tb have (note, I haven;t run a ranger, so maybe its dig is better than the trailblazers). I know on my TB, it doesn't seem to change things a whole lot for me. It is noticeable, but just that of the 4 positions, I can run 6010 on the 3 stiffer arc ones and still get the same job done without much consequence, except that the 6010 bead seems to get a bit rougher:rolleyes: . Some miller guys are saying keep the Tb you'll be fine, but as I'm starting to mess around with pipe coupons, it doesn't seem to be running the 5p+ like I thought it should. Heaven knows that the dig doesn't seem to be making any huge difference in the world. Of course, because I don't really know what I am doing in the world of downhand, it all could be me that's not performing right and not the machine's fault.:o

ventureline
02-14-2007, 01:52 AM
New Classics don't have adjustable arc force either, the Kubotas have an adjustable rev knob to bring the high idle down lower but thats about it.

The only other arc force is adjusted by rolling the rack a 1/16" one way or the other. Not a quick procedure...
Sticking in larger brushes is just a waste of time and money.

Most guys put a PTO type handle on the SA200 carb to jack the RPM up for capping and turn it back down for regular welding

The guys in the mod yards still cap wth 1/4",, as well as the guys rolling pipe , on the line it appears to be 3/16"

coalsmoke
02-14-2007, 02:11 AM
New Classics don't have adjustable arc force either, the Kubotas have an adjustable rev knob to bring the high idle down lower but thats about it.

The only other arc force is adjusted by rolling the rack a 1/16" one way or the other. Not a quick procedure...
Sticking in larger brushes is just a waste of time and money.

Most guys put a PTO type handle on the SA200 carb to jack the RPM up for capping and turn it back down for regular welding

The guys in the mod yards still cap wth 1/4",, as well as the guys rolling pipe , on the line it appears to be 3/16"

Well, I'm neither of us are pipeliners but at least you;re in the right area and have the pipelining customers, but from the SA200 owners manual, it talks about being able to adjust the continuous voltage control via the fine current control and the range selector switch allowing an adjust ment from a "soft buttery arc" to a "forceful digging arc".

I've got a question over here ( http://www.hobartwelders.com/mboard/showthread.php?p=261440#post261440 )that I just put up about adding extra auxiliary power to a SA200, you'd probably be the one to ask about it as you work on these things regularly:cool:

ShieldArc
02-14-2007, 09:04 AM
New Classics don't have adjustable arc force either, the Kubotas have an adjustable rev knob to bring the high idle down lower but thats about it.

The only other arc force is adjusted by rolling the rack a 1/16" one way or the other. Not a quick procedure...
Sticking in larger brushes is just a waste of time and money.

Most guys put a PTO type handle on the SA200 carb to jack the RPM up for capping and turn it back down for regular welding

The guys in the mod yards still cap wth 1/4",, as well as the guys rolling pipe , on the line it appears to be 3/16"

I see you dont fully understand a SA-200, just what you've heard. :)

ventureline
02-14-2007, 10:17 AM
An SA200 has 5 ranges, each range is controlled off a fine tune rheostat. Linda like taps on a static machine

There is no real dig control The weld doesn't start high and work low, or low to high for optimum welding. This is a computer board thing.

Its just your power in between the ranges, ie, the power max amperage you desire for any given weld,

And yes I do know how they work, maybe tore down 1000 of them over the past 20 years.

I install the PTO mods & tach to run 1/4" caps

SMTatham
02-14-2007, 10:31 AM
Ventureline, could you elaborate on WHERE capping with 1/4" rod is common? Is it just a very specialized, narrow market segment? I have done a fair amount of pipe; mostly all the big pipe was in water/wastewater treatment and here in the US running a 1/4" cellulose rod for caps is just NOT common; hence the suggestion by several that you are full of BS. If you could clear this up it would help...............

ventureline
02-14-2007, 10:46 AM
1/4" capping is usually down by a rolling pipe process mostly found in mod yards. These yards make big industrial components in secions for syncrude and the like. You gotta figure that companies make 1/4" rod for something, those that don't roll pipe are running 3/16"

Alot of welded pipe, and we are talking oil related, is rolled, We have procedures call for the big rod, I've read the requirements so piss off.

You in the States do not have mod yards, and very little oil there for have reason so set up special procedures to run the bigger rod.

Pile Buck
02-14-2007, 10:51 AM
You in the States do not have mod yards, and very little oil
Yeah but we have the resources to reach out and take it away from the ones that do!:eek: :eek:

Ask George W. :D

ventureline
02-14-2007, 10:55 AM
Since the oil firms here for the most parts are ran from out of country conglomerates, I really don't see the point. Your still running your car and heating your house with fuel originating in Canada.

I think the next big war will be over fresh water, something you fellas are running out of, but we have lots of....

Ole George W's on his last term, pole ratings are hovering around the 0% mark, the idiots are us stratagy never worked for him.

Pile Buck
02-14-2007, 10:58 AM
I think the next big war will be over fresh water, something you fellas are running out of, but we have lots of....
:D :D :D :D :D Not me buddy, 8 to 9-months a year I’m knee deep in it by just stepping off my back deck! :eek:

SMTatham
02-14-2007, 10:59 AM
Alot of welded pipe, and we are talking oil related, is rolled, We have procedures call for the big rod, I've read the requirements so piss off.




A little touchy aren't we?? You gave the clarification I asked for; no need for attitude.

ventureline
02-14-2007, 11:02 AM
A little touchy aren't we?? You gave the clarification I asked for; no need for attitude.

I think you mentioned that I was full of BS. I see this guys running 1/4" everyday, They have problems and I get to figure out why.

SMTatham
02-14-2007, 02:52 PM
You keep on and I am going to think you are full of BS for sure..................you answered the question: it is a narrow market segment; NOT mainlining or distribution pipe or compressor stations or other "common" pipe applications.

ShieldArc
02-14-2007, 02:57 PM
I think you mentioned that I was full of BS. I see this guys running 1/4" everyday, They have problems and I get to figure out why.

If they are using SA-200's they are using the wrong machines..... :rolleyes:

ShieldArc
02-14-2007, 02:58 PM
Where is my boots? Its starting to get deep in here. :D

coalsmoke
02-14-2007, 03:08 PM
Where is my boots? Its starting to get deep in here. :D

well shoot, can someone who runs one of these things then at least clear up just how well you can or cannot adjust the arc using the overlapping current ranges on a SA200:rolleyes: :confused: :confused: :confused: I thought I had the cat in the bag there, until I read its a computer board thing:p

ShieldArc
02-14-2007, 03:12 PM
An SA200 has 5 ranges, each range is controlled off a fine tune rheostat. Linda like taps on a static machine

There is no real dig control The weld doesn't start high and work low, or low to high for optimum welding. This is a computer board thing.

Its just your power in between the ranges, ie, the power max amperage you desire for any given weld,

And yes I do know how they work, maybe tore down 1000 of them over the past 20 years.

I install the PTO mods & tach to run 1/4" caps

I will say again, you dont understand. With separate adjustments of amps and voltage you can change arc types. Just because you can take a machine apart doesnt mean you know how to use it.

My god????? :confused:

(There is no real dig control The weld doesn't start high and work low, or low to high for optimum welding. This is a computer board thing)

No clue in 20yrs around these machines? hehehhehehe :D

Sberry
02-14-2007, 03:23 PM
Hey, Jeff, Venturline is very helpful here with trouble shooting, does a lot of posts. You figure to come along critique every word with a comb and start a pissing match over something that dont mean squat? This whole thread isnt anything but a bunch of mental masturbation anyway, just like a couple other ones.

coalsmoke
02-14-2007, 03:35 PM
Hey, Jeff, Venturline is very helpful here with trouble shooting, does a lot of posts. You figure to come along critique every word with a comb and start a pissing match over something that dont mean squat? This whole thread isnt anything but a bunch of mental masturbation anyway, just like a couple other ones.

what's wrong strawberry, you not getting any with your playmate lately:rolleyes: Good heavens, its been said before, IF you don't want to turn on the brain, then don't bother reading the threads. Truth is truth, however it might lay and in whomever's favour. If we can't sort out what's really going on and expect a realistic answer, then what's the point of asking a question in the first place:rolleyes:

J Hall
02-14-2007, 07:01 PM
I thought all this was pretty simple to understand, as arc force relates to weld voltage, and anyone who has messed with a dual control machine could see a difference in the arc.

Here is what it says in the SA-200 operators manual.
A high open circuit voltage setting provides the soft "buttering" arc with the best resistance to pop outs preferred for most welding. To get this characteristic, ste the Current range selector to hte lowest setting that still provides the current you need and set the fine current adjustment near maximum.. Ex, set the Current range to 190-120amps and adjust the fine current to get 175 amps.

When a forceful "digging" arc is required use a higher use a higher Current range selector setting and a lower open cicuit voltage setting. Ex, to get 175 amps and a forceful arc, set the Current range to to the 240-160 position and the fine current adjustment setting to get 175 amps

ShieldArc
02-14-2007, 07:45 PM
I thought all this was pretty simple to understand, as arc force relates to weld voltage, and anyone who has messed with a dual control machine could see a difference in the arc.

Here is what it says in the SA-200 operators manual.
A high open circuit voltage setting provides the soft "buttering" arc with the best resistance to pop outs preferred for most welding. To get this characteristic, ste the Current range selector to hte lowest setting that still provides the current you need and set the fine current adjustment near maximum.. Ex, set the Current range to 190-120amps and adjust the fine current to get 175 amps.

When a forceful "digging" arc is required use a higher use a higher Current range selector setting and a lower open cicuit voltage setting. Ex, to get 175 amps and a forceful arc, set the Current range to to the 240-160 position and the fine current adjustment setting to get 175 amps
Which means, less amps and more voltage you get soft arc. More amps and less volts you get a digging arc. And there are different types in between these extremes. For out of position work you will want less voltage. For flat work and bigger rods you want more voltage. For a concentrated arc less volts. Ahhh this is hard for me to explain. :o
I can say the trailblazers i had the arc was soft and put a lot of heat into the work and i didnt like that.
The arc force switch on the millers didnt make sense to me. If im using 7018 out of position i want more arc force. The infinate arc force on my Ranger 305 lets me dial in the exact arc force i need.

J Hall
02-14-2007, 08:16 PM
I have troubles explaining things too:)

J Hall
02-14-2007, 08:24 PM
TRG 42, however, does not have troubles explaining things:D

Pile Buck
02-14-2007, 08:35 PM
Which means, less amps and more voltage you get soft arc. More amps and less volts you get a digging arc. And there are different types in between these extremes. For out of position work you will want less voltage. For flat work and bigger rods you want more voltage. For a concentrated arc less volts. Ahhh this is hard for me to explain. :o
I can say the trailblazers i had the arc was soft and put a lot of heat into the work and i didnt like that.
The arc force switch on the millers didnt make sense to me. If im using 7018 out of position i want more arc force. The infinate arc force on my Ranger 305 lets me dial in the exact arc force i need.
This is a perfect example of one of my long time beaches with Miller machines. Doesnít matter if itís SMAW or a wire feed. I never did like being locked into an amp setting, then have to make up the difference with the fine tune, (voltage):mad: . I like dials for the fine tune, (voltage) as well as the amp side. In my opinion when your limited to an amp range selector itís so much harder to find that sweet spot.

ShieldArc
02-14-2007, 09:01 PM
This is a perfect example of one of my long time beaches with Miller machines. Doesnít matter if itís SMAW or a wire feed. I never did like being locked into an amp setting, then have to make up the difference with the fine tune, (voltage):mad: . I like dials for the fine tune, (voltage) as well as the amp side. In my opinion when your limited to an amp range selector itís so much harder to find that sweet spot.
I like your machine and also the Linde next to it, 2 rugged machines.
The absolutley best AC input DC output welder i have ever used it this one. :)
http://content.lincolnelectric.com//pdfs/products/navigator/im/IM132F.pdf
It has infinant amps and voltage dials. A customer of mine has one built in 1960. I use it whenever i go there. :)
Only prob is its 3 phase only.
They did many things well in the old days.

Pile Buck
02-14-2007, 09:11 PM
I like your machine and also the Linde next to it, 2 rugged machines.
The absolutley best AC input DC output welder i have ever used it this one. :)
http://content.lincolnelectric.com//pdfs/products/navigator/im/IM132F.pdf
It has infinant amps and voltage dials. A customer of mine has one built in 1960. I use it whenever i go there. :)
Only prob is its 3 phase only.
They did many things well in the old days.

We had those in the one shop I worked in, in the 1970ís. Used lots of them in the different factories I worked in back in my Millwright days. Seems as somewhere I even tig welded with one:confused: . Oh so many machines, and so many jobs up and down the coast, sometimes I loose track. :confused: :confused: :rolleyes:

Thatís one thing I should thank you for; you sure jog the ol memory!:cool: ;)

ShieldArc
02-14-2007, 09:30 PM
We had those in the one shop I worked in, in the 1970ís. Used lots of them in the different factories I worked in back in my Millwright days. Seems as somewhere I even tig welded with one:confused: . Oh so many machines, and so many jobs up and down the coast, sometimes I loose track. :confused: :confused: :rolleyes:

Thatís one thing I should thank you for; you sure jog the ol memory!:cool: ;)

They were use for tig also, so you probbly did.
Hey, i have a new pair of welding gloves that i saved from 1976. They are red white and blue and say Spirit of 1776. Remember those? :D
Now if i can only find where i hid them in my house. :o

Pile Buck
02-14-2007, 09:42 PM
Hey, i have a new pair of welding gloves that i saved from 1976. They are red white and blue and say Spirit of 1776. Remember those? :D
Now if i can only find where i hid them in my house. :o
Yeah I remember the red white, and blue gloves:D :D , but don’t remember them saying Spirit of 1776:confused: . I was working in a Shell oil refinery then; remember all the refinery weldors had them! Can’t really remember if they gave me any or not:confused: . I worked in their weld shop a lot. That was the first time I ever ran a plasma cutter. Had to make donuts out of 3/4-inch thick stainless steel, for what I have no idea! :confused: :D

coalsmoke
02-14-2007, 11:47 PM
TRG 42, however, does not have troubles explaining things:D

I know, that guy is incredible. I got half way through his DIG post and thought "some beach, this stuff is starting to make sense", now I just got to read through the good part about the generator machiens and wrap my head around the different slope curves / lines. Also with his posts in the other thread about pure DC machines. Dead on the mark and really makes the stuff understandable :cool:

Pile Buck
02-15-2007, 10:10 AM
They were use for tig also, so you probbly did.

I remember now, it hit me last night after I went to bed, (I got to get a life, and get off these forums:eek: :D ) anyway it was in a Reynolds Aluminum can plant.;)

I also got to thinking about an SAE 600 machine I used for quite some time. So I went to Lincolnís web site to look around, well I canít zoom in close enough to prove it to my self, but it seems as I remember in the writing around the dial, (#16) in the white, red, and black area it suggest which positions of the dial is best for flat, vertical, and overhead welding. Far as you know is that correct? :confused: :D

J Hall
02-15-2007, 10:55 AM
You are right.
They called it the "job selector" it is the same as the Variable voltage control on a SAM welder.
It set you OCV with A position for Large rods, normal, overhead, and special low ocv applications

Pile Buck
02-15-2007, 11:28 AM
with A position for Large rods, normal, overhead, and special low ocv applications

Thatís right Jeff, now I remember!;)



Ok, different ways to look at this:

1. Guys who own / buy Lincolns need more help than Miller guys.
2. Guys who own / buy Millers just donít understand what theyíre missing! :D

coalsmoke
02-15-2007, 12:27 PM
Thatís right Jeff, now I remember!;)



Ok, different ways to look at this:

1. Guys who own / buy Lincolns need more help than Miller guys.
2. Guys who own / buy Millers just donít understand what theyíre missing! :D

depends what you mean by "help" :D Sounds like a slippery slope there PB:D

ShieldArc
02-15-2007, 01:12 PM
1. Guys who own / buy Lincolns need more help than Miller guys.
2. Guys who own / buy Millers just donít understand what theyíre missing! :D

Actually its most younger welders. They dont teach that in school anymore.