Need help with Teeth...

[kennyd]

I am repairing a mini-excavator bucket (16") for my cousin, it's the least I could do because he lets me use it whenever I need it. The 2 outside replaceable teeth feel off and he kept using it until the nubs wore down to nothing!
I have cut the old nubs out and am waiting on the new ones I ordered to show up...

I have a MM210, .030 wire, C25 Gas and plan to weld the crap out of the new nub, Should I preheat the area to be welded first? I only have an acetylene torch (no oxygen), will this be sufficient?

Also, What is a good hardfacing wire to use with the MM210?

Thank for your time :D

http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r49/kennyd4110/DSC02397.jpg

http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r49/kennyd4110/DSC02396.jpg

[Robo48]

You may want to flux core the bucket. I am not positive the 210 can weld that bucket with solid wire. Someone a bit more experienced with the 210 should chime in. Good luck with the repair the start looks to be perfect.:D

[Benesesso]

Here's what I would do--but only if I could turn the bucket so as to always weld in the flat position. Get a small bottle of straight argon and another reg. Use a tee fitting so you can blend in the straight with your mix--~50/50. Then crank up the voltage to ~27+ and the WFS way up. You will then be in "spray mode", and you can lay down a lot of steel in a hurry.

[Sberry]

I might catch some flak for this but thats what I would do, heat them and the surrounding area warmer than you can hold your hand on and weld it up. Mini excavator, I say go for it and tell us how it turned out.

[fyoung]

Should I preheat the area to be welded first? I only have an acetylene torch (no oxygen), will this be sufficient?


I'm assuming you just ran out of oxygen?

[TEK]

I'm assuming you just ran out of oxygen?

You beat me to that one Farris. :D

[fyoung]

You beat me to that one Farris. :D

Sorry about that!:D

[coalsmoke]

I might catch some flak for this but thats what I would do, heat them and the surrounding area warmer than you can hold your hand on and weld it up. Mini excavator, I say go for it and tell us how it turned out.

No, that's pretty close to right. Preheat that weld area to 225*F-400*F, and maintain this as an interpass temp.

Kenny, that 'nub' is called a "tooth shank", or "shank" for short. Some people call them tooth adapters too, but that's not a common name. I think that MM210 should be able to do the job, just make sure your prep is good, deep, and clean. Make sure that you maintain that interpass temp and DO NOT let it get past 450*F. You must also keep in mind that these corner shanks are one of the most structurally integral parts of the digging bucket. You should have 3/4" inside fillet legs on something that size by the time you're done, and a 3/8"-1/2" bevel wouldn't hurt either to make sure that the mm210 can get enough penetration. If you have any more questions, just ask, or, you can send me an email for a faster response if you'd like. Have fun:cool:

[greywynd]

Coalsmoke is right, even though this is a 'mini' bucket, it still needs to be welded right. I needed the shanks replaced on my mini bucket (16" as well) in a hurry a few years ago, hired a local, supposed to be competent welderto do it as I had too much other work on the go. New cutting edge and shanks, cutting edge had paint on it, so was easy to tell it wasn't preheated when it was welded. I asked how he preheated it....his response "Preheat? Nah, doesn't need it, I just welded it together"

Lasted about 6 months until I hooked into a stubborn stump....the cutting edge (about 1/2-5/8" thick by 5 inches wide) cracked through in two or three pieces, the middle two teeth hanging by the weld at the back of the cutting edge. Fortunately I was able to get more cutting edge material right away (often ar400 or DH-2 are common steels for this) nd then I preheated and welded it myself......still going now and I've even been riping through the odd batch of thin concrete and rock.

When you pick up the new shanks, ask the dealer what the preheat procedure should be.....they usually know the temps offhand. I know in my case I proved it needs done....even with a small machine. In my case I've proved the strength of these machines several times....best one was last year, a highway tractor sunk it's front wheels in soft ground next door while trying to get turned around. My 40hp tractor couldn't get enough traction to tow it.....hooked the chain to the bucket of the mini (2 ton machine with a 0.777litre engine) and pulled it out. Driver was shaking his head the whole time.....especially when it pulled him out, next option was a wrecker$$$.

Mark

[kennyd]

I'm assuming you just ran out of oxygen?


No, don't have any yet...See this Thread:
http://www.hobartwelders.com/mboard/showthread.php?t=22389


Thank for the help so far, I am learning!

CoalSmoke and Mark, thank for your detailed replies!

[weldrwomn]

Here's what I would do--but only if I could turn the bucket so as to always weld in the flat position. Get a small bottle of straight argon and another reg. Use a tee fitting so you can blend in the straight with your mix--~50/50. Then crank up the voltage to ~27+ and the WFS way up. You will then be in "spray mode", and you can lay down a lot of steel in a hurry.

If you are running flux-cored wire, then I would tell you that there is probably no Flux-cored wire out there that is meant to run on that mix (99.9% sure) the highest CO2/AR mix that you would want to use is about 75%AR/25%CO2. It all depends on the wire that you are going to use. There are both Gas shielded and self shielded hard surfacing wires out there. The spray mode has very little to do with the gas mix that you are using. It is actually based on the Amps or heat. The gas does play a role in increasing the heat of the arc, but it is not solely responsible for the spray mode.

[ATCOent]

Here's what I would do--but only if I could turn the bucket so as to always weld in the flat position. Get a small bottle of straight argon and another reg. Use a tee fitting so you can blend in the straight with your mix--~50/50. Then crank up the voltage to ~27+ and the WFS way up. You will then be in "spray mode", and you can lay down a lot of steel in a hurry.

Very interesting Benesesso. I would love to hear more about your experiences with the setup you describe.

If you want to use spray transfer (for increased deposition and penetration) I suggest getting a small bottle of 98-2 (98% argon, 2% oxygen) or 95-5 and use the regulator you have.

[weldrwomn]

Generally, only stainless wires run with 98/2 or 95/5. There are some low alloy wires that also use this mix, but very few.

[Hotfoot]

KennyD said:

"...and plan to weld the crap out of the new nub..." That sounds like exactly like the weldor Greywynd tells us about did. I cannot imagine you getting this bucket up to 400 degrees with just an acetylene torch....could he build a "two bagger" charcoal fire in a pit under the weld area(s)

My question to the weldors is "Why can't he heat it above 450 degrees, Coalsmoke??...seems like the hotter the better, but I have no clue on this heavy stuff!!

...and how large of an area should be pre-heated...just the weld area, a foot out..two feet, etc?...too small of an area would seem to hold the door open for stress to come racing back to weld as it cooled. Does the pre-heated area need a slow cool-down (buried in sand or kitty litter??

This is a good thread!!:)

[greywynd]

My question to the weldors is "Why can't he heat it above 450 degrees, Coalsmoke??...seems like the hotter the better, but I have no clue on this heavy stuff!!

...and how large of an area should be pre-heated...just the weld area, a foot out..two feet, etc?...too small of an area would seem to hold the door open for stress to come racing back to weld as it cooled. Does the pre-heated area need a slow cool-down (buried in sand or kitty litter??

This is a good thread!!:)

Hotfoot: If you go above the maximum temperature during the preheat, you can start to affect the heat treatment and tempering of the steel. Generally heating can be done over a large enough area with a rosebud, in my case I didn't have it so I used a large cutting tip instead. For some of this stuff an old oven could be used, or at work for small tool parts we use a hotplate and thermal blanket.

As far as the weld area goes, it again depends on the steel affected. In my case the body of the bucket is mild steel, it's only the cutting edge and shanks that are tempered. By heating only those, and then welding, the body of the bucket helps to cool the edge back to the 400 degree range that's required. I don't know the exact changes to the structure of the steel in the weld/heat affected area though, so I can't help much with that.

As far as post welding, I again used the torch....evenly over the area, and just let it slowly cool.....probably used the torch about 5 minutes, evening out he heat....btw I have temperature crayons that I used to make sure I don't go too hot. I then just let it air cool.....with the mass of the steel, likely took 1/2 hour or so before it was cool to the touch. So far it's held up just fine, and I've been using/abusing it for a couple years now....this year I've got into more rock work then before, so I'm lifting loads that put a lot more weight on the cutting edge/teeth, and I'm planning on building a hydraulic thumb for it over the winter just for the rock work I'm now doing.

Mark

[ATCOent]

Generally, only stainless wires run with 98/2 or 95/5. There are some low alloy wires that also use this mix, but very few.

Yes, you can use 98-2 and 95-5 to spray SS but you can also use it to spray steel.

Here is some info on millerwelds.com. See page 13.

http://www.millerwelds.com/pdf/mig_handbook.pdf

[ATCOent]

KennyD said:

"Why can't he heat it above 450 degrees, Coalsmoke??...seems like the hotter the better, but I have no clue on this heavy stuff!!

...and how large of an area should be pre-heated...just the weld area, a foot out..two feet, etc?...too small of an area would seem to hold the door open for stress to come racing back to weld as it cooled. Does the pre-heated area need a slow cool-down (buried in sand or kitty litter??

Coalsmoke was right on with his description.

Too much heat (over 500*F) for a long period of time will change the molecular structure of the steel in effect weakening it. You only pre-heat the area you will be welding in. The pre-heat keeps the “cold” steel from quenching the steel in the Heat Affected Zone (HAZ) (the steel just beyond the welds) causing it to crack. Post-heating removes any residual stress caused by welding.

With mild steel you only need to pre-heat it enough to drive off any moisture—at least 70*F. When welding higher strength (i.e.: higher carbon) steel you pre-heat it to at least 300*F, make one (1) weld pass and wait until the weld has cooled to below 500*F but above 300*F. After all the welding is complete you post-heat the entire weld area to 1,100*F and allow it to cool in the open air. With mild steel you don't need to watch you interpass temperatures or post-heat because the steel is "soft" enough to deform sufficiently to mitigate any cracking. You should always try to keep from putting too much heat in mild steel but it is not as sensitive as higher carbon steel.

[Benesesso]

Kennyd and others,

Do a search and find the thread from 1/06 called "Metallurgy and Heat Treatment Basics" in the "Welding Processes" section. It may help explain what is going on. I suspect your bucket is made from an AR steel (abrasion-resisting), esp. if it's a quality (non-HF type) bucket. If so. it will react to welding/preheat more like 4130 than mild steel.

Also, listen to Coalsmoke.

I had written a 6-part series for the topic, but after the first 3 I posted I didn't get any more comments/requests, so I quit posting them figuring there was a lack of interest.

[Sberry]

Coalsmoke was right on with his description.

With mild steel you only need to pre-heat it enough to drive off any moisture—at least 70.
Depends on thickness, it isnt really to drive off moisture its to slow the cooling rate of the bead on thick sections.

[calweld]

This is all getting pretty complicated for what it is. Weld it up and put it out to work, the original fabricators of this bucket didn't worry as much as the people on this board do.

[coalsmoke]

KennyD said:

"...and plan to weld the crap out of the new nub..." That sounds like exactly like the weldor Greywynd tells us about did. I cannot imagine you getting this bucket up to 400 degrees with just an acetylene torch....could he build a "two bagger" charcoal fire in a pit under the weld area(s)

My question to the weldors is "Why can't he heat it above 450 degrees, Coalsmoke??...seems like the hotter the better, but I have no clue on this heavy stuff!!

...and how large of an area should be pre-heated...just the weld area, a foot out..two feet, etc?...too small of an area would seem to hold the door open for stress to come racing back to weld as it cooled. Does the pre-heated area need a slow cool-down (buried in sand or kitty litter??

This is a good thread!!:)

OK, in series as asked:
1. I use a tiger torch, don't remember the BTUs but its a lot, something like 250,000 or is it 500,000btus? Is just a general big honkin propane-air tiger torch. I can heat 5,000lb buckets with this, although the larger the bucket the longer it takes. A 1500lb bucket takes about 15minutes to preheat and minimal torch heat once welding begins to maintain interpass temps.

2. why not heat certain steels above 450? Short answer, for these steels you'll begin to alter their crystyline structure which will ruin their abrasion resistant and hardness properties unless re-heat treated. This is not a DIY in the backyard job.

3. how large of an area? Well, you need a few inches of each side of the weld ideally to be up to at least 200*F, but it gets tricky because measured at 1" from the edge of the weld you want to maintain interpass temps but not exceed it. Overheat the general area of the bucket and the weld area will get too hot, which jujst means you'll have to sit and let it cool a bit before proceeding.:cool:

[coalsmoke]

As far as post welding, I again used the torch....evenly over the area, and just let it slowly cool.....probably used the torch about 5 minutes, evening out he heat....btw I have temperature crayons that I used to make sure I don't go too hot. I then just let it air cool.....with the mass of the steel, likely took 1/2 hour or so before it was cool to the touch. So far it's held up just fine, and I've been using/abusing it for a couple years now....this year I've got into more rock work then before, so I'm lifting loads that put a lot more weight on the cutting edge/teeth, and I'm planning on building a hydraulic thumb for it over the winter just for the rock work I'm now doing.

Mark

temp sticks are good, I use mine regularly. They are so cheap there is no excuse for not using them for this type of repair


Coalsmoke was right on with his description.

Too much heat (over 500*F) for a long period of time will change the molecular structure of the steel in effect weakening it. You only pre-heat the area you will be welding in. The pre-heat keeps the “cold” steel from quenching the steel in the Heat Affected Zone (HAZ) (the steel just beyond the welds) causing it to crack. Post-heating removes any residual stress caused by welding.

With mild steel you only need to pre-heat it enough to drive off any moisture—at least 70*F. When welding higher strength (i.e.: higher carbon) steel you pre-heat it to at least 300*F, make one (1) weld pass and wait until the weld has cooled to below 500*F but above 300*F. After all the welding is complete you post-heat the entire weld area to 1,100*F and allow it to cool in the open air. With mild steel you don't need to watch you interpass temperatures or post-heat because the steel is "soft" enough to deform sufficiently to mitigate any cracking. You should always try to keep from putting too much heat in mild steel but it is not as sensitive as higher carbon steel.

No preheat necessary with common medium-low carbon steels, aka "mild steel"

Once your preheat and interpass has reached 225, you're fine, weld away. I know some guys that weld at 200F and are fine, I give it a bit more than the minimum, as it helps to avoid hitting cold spots.

If you do as it says above and post heat to 1100*F you will have ruined a good bucket. 450*F tops. :rolleyes:


Kennyd and others,

Do a search and find the thread from 1/06 called "Metallurgy and Heat Treatment Basics" in the "Welding Processes" section. It may help explain what is going on. I suspect your bucket is made from an AR steel (abrasion-resisting), esp. if it's a quality (non-HF type) bucket. If so. it will react to welding/preheat more like 4130 than mild steel.

Also, listen to Coalsmoke.

I had written a 6-part series for the topic, but after the first 3 I posted I didn't get any more comments/requests, so I quit posting them figuring there was a lack of interest.
thanks ;)

[Sberry]

This is all getting pretty complicated for what it is. Weld it up and put it out to work, the original fabricators of this bucket didn't worry as much as the people on this board do.
I pretty much have to agree with that statement.

[Sberry]

It is good learning curve though and although I dont have a tech background or do that work every day I would have just by nature have warmed it up, welded it without overheating the tooth and called it a day. I have a handful of temp sticks around but cant recall the last time I pull one out but on this little mini job it likely wouldnt have crossed my mind, I would have used my hand and splashed a little coffee on it, said good to go. Ha

[JoeJ]

I don't think I saw it mentioned, but I would cut off those welds on the side plates and put a bevel on them too.

[kennyd]

Thanks again for all the replies...
I took a little of everybodys advice, heated it the best I could-and then just welded it the best I knew how.I built up the weld in several passes.
Here are two pics of the finished project, except for hardfacing witch I will probably not get to this year.
http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r49/kennyd4110/EX%20Bucket/DSC02442.jpg

http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r49/kennyd4110/EX%20Bucket/DSC02441.jpg

[coalsmoke]

I don't know if I have the heart to tell you that your teeth and shanks are on backwards. Also looks like there was lots of 1" wide weaving going on?? Also, would it be a bad time to mention that those are bucket loader teeth, not excavator teeth. Good thing this job is for free.

[Terry Lingle]

Ohh ouch I just saw that. since it has embeds in it and I am on Dialup I pass on these posts.

better luck next time. Terry

[kennyd]

I don't know if I have the heart to tell you that your teeth and shanks are on backwards. Also looks like there was lots of 1" wide weaving going on?? Also, would it be a bad time to mention that those are bucket loader teeth, not excavator teeth. Good thing this job is for free.


Coalsmoke,
That is exactly how the the old teeth were on the bucket! They sure do look backwards though I will agree! And the parts are origanal OEM parts from JohnDeere-loader teeth or not, that what was on there origanally.
Here is a picture of the bucket from JDParts.com
:http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r49/kennyd4110/EX%20Bucket/JDParts.jpg


Sorry my job does not meet your standards:p

[coalsmoke]

Coalsmoke,
That is exactly how the the old teeth were on the bucket! They sure do look backwards though I will agree! And the parts are origanal OEM parts from JohnDeere-loader teeth or not, that what was on there origanally.
Here is a picture of the bucket from JDParts.com


Sorry my job does not meet your standards:p

makes no differnce to me, you're not in my area;) I suspect somebody screwed up at JD parts;) Of course, it is possible that this bucket is so old that is was following an experimental design and not today's convention, but I wouldn't put too much money on that one.

[calweld]

hehehehe . . .

I've probably mounted as many or more teeth/shanks of various types as anybody else here, probably more than most. That style is not uncommon, it's not for heavy rock work but in it's element it is more than adequate. I see nothing wrong with how they are mounted, the angle down protects the bottom and the wear surface itself protects the top. If the teeth were reversed, the soft metal of the mounting pocket would wear out in no time.

[coalsmoke]

hehehehe . . .

I've probably mounted as many or more teeth/shanks of various types as anybody else here, probably more than most. That style is not uncommon, it's not for heavy rock work but in it's element it is more than adequate. I see nothing wrong with how they are mounted, the angle down protects the bottom and the wear surface itself protects the top. If the teeth were reversed, the soft metal of the mounting pocket would wear out in no time.
Calweld, I disagree. I have seen that style of tooth and shank, but never mounted like that. These are soil teeth like you mentioned, and are most common on loadout machines.

[J Hall]

I've seen lots of those teeth on backhoes. They are good for dirt and clay not for rock. They are mounted correctly.

[coalsmoke]

ok, I obviously stand corrected. I see them primarily on loaders and occasionally on backhoes, but never mounted like that. The top pocket as Cal said above is not soft and does not wear out before the tooth is worn out. Still, if you guys say so, then such it is. As an operator, if I had to do case out work or similar very technical work, I would not want to run a bucket with that geometery, whether or not the JD book says that's the way it is. Maybe its an geographical thing, mounting them like that.

[whateg0]

Not to pick sides or anything, but one of the brochures for a "non-current" excavator on JD's website appears to show the teeth mounted the other way.

http://www.deere.com/en_US/cfd/construction/deere_const/media/non_current_pdfs/noncurrent_excavators/DKAXZTSCWP.PDF

http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l220/whateg01/jdteeth1.jpg

Just my 2.5 cents.

Dave

[whateg0]

Here's another.

http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l220/whateg01/jdteeth2.jpg

I would guess that this, like many other things, is something that everybody has a different opinion on, though. Use what works. That's my motto. Or something like that.

Dave

[coalsmoke]

Thanks for the picture Dave. That's how this style of tooth is on all machines that I have come across.

[coalsmoke]

whatego, there's actually a couple of other things to consider with teeth. Proper tooth selection and mounting will not only promote proper GED geometry, but will also promote longer buckect component wearspans and greater levels of productivity.

[whateg0]

Okay, just to show I'm not biased, here's a pic from one of JD's manuals.

http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l220/whateg01/jdteeth3.jpg

So, I guess even JD doesn't know which way they go.
Dave

[cdog]

As usual, I have learned alot from this thread. :) Thanks
Nico

[calweld]

Anybody doing this type of work needs to have the ability to examine and diagnose existing wearpatterns. If anybody bothered to look closely at the pictures kennyd posted of his bucket, the wear is obviously on top of the blade, this is normal for any backhoe/excavator bucket (loader buckets wear differently), the front top leading edge of the bucket gets the initial wear, the bottom outside of the bucket rarely sees any significant wear until you get more than halfway back on the floor, and into the curve. Watch how a backhoe bucket is used sometime, you will see why this is so. Any wearparts at the front, therefore, should be installed with the wearsurface facing the front, and up, to get the maximum benefit from the hard surface.

Whatever any of the "experts" here say, for this application, Kennyd has installed his points correctly.

[coalsmoke]

Anybody doing this type of work needs to have the ability to examine and diagnose existing wearpatterns. If anybody bothered to look closely at the pictures kennyd posted of his bucket, the wear is obviously on top of the blade, this is normal for any backhoe/excavator bucket (loader buckets wear differently), the front top leading edge of the bucket gets the initial wear, the bottom outside of the bucket rarely sees any significant wear until you get more than halfway back on the floor, and into the curve. Watch how a backhoe bucket is used sometime, you will see why this is so. Any wearparts at the front, therefore, should be installed with the wearsurface facing the front, and up, to get the maximum benefit from the hard surface.

Whatever any of the "experts" here say, for this application, Kennyd has installed his points correctly.

ok, I am not going stoop and say any cute comments to retaliate to your remarks. I will say that in real world applications, the wear patterns can alter depending on use, material, and the set-up of the implement. Depending on these variables, it is not necessarily uncommon to see more wear on the underside of an implement than the top side, while for example if a hoe is primarily pulling grade with a cleanout, then it will indeed demonstrate accelerated top surface wear. The point I am making is that you cannot make simple blanket statements about this stuff and expect that people will believe that they hold true under a variety of circumstances. Also, since I don't have x-ray vision, I can't see the bottom of his cutting edge, and the top shows normal wear. A person can sit here all day long, and make up their own logic to argue either point. At the end of the day, I rely on field-proven experience, not a home-brew set of seemingly logical principles. I'm going to bed, so have at er and say what you wish:rolleyes:

[J Hall]

Man, I can't believe you guye were on here at 3:00 am arguing over teeth on a tiny little bucket:p Does somebody need to link you to a sleep disorder site?
Time for work.. Have fun:D

[calweld]

I'm going to bed, so have at er and say what you wish
Funny, almost sounds like one of JT's sign-offs :D :D


At the end of the day, I rely on field-proven experience

Yeah, with your years and years of experience :rolleyes: :rolleyes:


Man, I can't believe you guye were on here at 3:00 am arguing over teeth on a tiny little bucket

Actually, about 1:00 am here. Nothing like it, wake up for a little midnight snack (leftover turkey, of course:D ) and do a little bickering before heading back to bed:D Actually, it's something about that kid contradicting me just rubs me the wrong way, plus I'd hate to see Kennyd thinking he'd have to redo his bucket because of bad advice.:(

[kennyd]

Funny, almost sounds like one of JT's sign-offs :D :D



Yeah, with your years and years of experience :rolleyes: :rolleyes:



Actually, about 1:00 am here. Nothing like it, wake up for a little midnight snack (leftover turkey, of course:D ) and do a little bickering before heading back to bed:D Actually, it's something about that kid contradicting me just rubs me the wrong way, plus I'd hate to see Kennyd thinking he'd have to redo his bucket because of bad advice.:(


Calweld,
Thanks for the backup on this! I knew Coalsmoke was Blowin'smoke when he told me that "I suspect somebody screwed up at JD parts" I took the old teeth off, so I knew I had them on properly, and the bucket is only two years old so I knew this statement was false also "Of course, it is possible that this bucket is so old that is was following an experimental design and not today's convention" And even when he saw the parts diagram from JDParts.com he still thought he was right and I was wrong.

There are always people on these boards that just like to nitpick and criticize every body's post's and project's, yet we never seem too see there perfect skills that they talk so highly about.

My welds are not the best looking, but at least I posted the final result of my efforts in an attempt to better myself and possibly help other's learn as well. I am not a professional welder, I never have claimed too be anything more than a hobbyist who likes to learn, that was the original point of this thread. Statement's like this "Good thing this job is for free" sure say a lot about the type of person he is, at least in my mind.

All in all, there was some good info in this post, we learned a little about preheating, we learned that there are many different kind off teeth for buckets, and that they can be mounted differently based upon usage.

Kennyd

[calweld]

All in all, there was some good info in this post, we learned a little about preheating, we learned that there are many different kind off teeth for buckets, and that they can be mounted differently based upon usage.

Kennyd

That's a good attitude to have :) :) :cool:

[coalsmoke]

Funny, almost sounds like one of JT's sign-offs :D :D
yeah, I am sending him royalties next week, he bills monthly


Yeah, with your years and years of experience :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
I would put money down that I am a better excavator operator than you:rolleyes:




Calweld,
Thanks for the backup on this! I knew Coalsmoke was Blowin'smoke when he told me that "I suspect somebody screwed up at JD parts" I took the old teeth off, so I knew I had them on properly, and the bucket is only two years old so I knew this statement was false also "Of course, it is possible that this bucket is so old that is was following an experimental design and not today's convention" And even when he saw the parts diagram from JDParts.com he still thought he was right and I was wrong.

There are always people on these boards that just like to nitpick and criticize every body's post's and project's, yet we never seem too see there perfect skills that they talk so highly about.

My welds are not the best looking, but at least I posted the final result of my efforts in an attempt to better myself and possibly help other's learn as well. I am not a professional welder, I never have claimed too be anything more than a hobbyist who likes to learn, that was the original point of this thread. Statement's like this "Good thing this job is for free" sure say a lot about the type of person he is, at least in my mind.
Kennyd

Kenny, I made a mistake in trying to help you, I came on here thinking you wanted to know how to do it right, and wanted professional adivce that would relate to real world usage. That will teach me for trying to help a new guy on here, NO MORE:mad: And, to end it all, I wasted half an hour arguing with cal about how they used to do it. There are reasons that new technology and new methdds are being implemented. Those that refuse to recognize new and better ways are doing a lerge disservice to themselves and their customers. Do you honestly think that you could bill for a job like that:rolleyes: If you can't take criticism with the advice provided on the good will of others, then its best not come looking for free advice. For a little money I'll blow smoke up your dress all day long if that is what you really wanted. Next time just tell me what you want to hear and I'll tell you it looks great:rolleyes:

[calweld]

I would put money down that I am a better excavator operator than you

There's no doubt in my mind you are correct, I'm not an excavator operator in any way shape or form. I can do what I have to, but could never hire out operating one. However, my customers I guarantee you have more experience and are better operators than you, and whatever I do, must be right because they keep calling me back. I suspect I do more buckets (blades, teeth, floors, wearstrips) every January than you've seen your whole life. I've even engineered and built a few specialty buckets over the years.

I've got a question, this confuses me a bit. You're what, 23, 24 years old?? You keep telling us you're finishing up a degree (six years???) , telling us about all your experience operating equipment, telling us all your experience welding, obviously spending a lot of time on several message boards, and you have a girlfriend????? Well, that's all possible, maybe you completely cut sleeping and eating out of your life . . .

Well, you gotta realize, some of us here are twice your age, and started working back in the days and in occupations the child labor laws were just winked at (not so long ago), many many more years of experience than you.

BTW, with my experience, looking at the few pictures posted of that bucket, I know exactly how the wearpatterns are on the bottom of that bucket and blade.

Just something to keep in mind . . .



Kenny, I made a mistake in trying to help you, I came on here thinking you wanted to know how to do it right, and wanted professional adivce that would relate to real world usage. That will teach me for trying to help a new guy on here, NO MORE

Boy, you sure seem delicate and sensitive here . . . seems you can dish it out but not take it?? I remember a couple times in the past a few times you yourself weren't too gracious???? I don't think anybody here begrudges you your opinion, your input is always valued, after all there are more than one way to do things, but your criticism earlier was somewhat offensive and personal, to be honest I think it was uncalled for, anybody would have gotten upset.

[SMTatham]

Wow, this is getting a little jazzed up for a discussion on a cheap-*** mini-ex bucket. The time and effort being put into this discussion..........well; Central Fabricators or one of their many competitors would build a few dozen buckets for Kubota in this amount of time!! The shanks and teeth are on correctly; the configuration is far from unusual or experimental; and a bucket of this type can be fixed just fine in someone's backyard. I suspect if this conversation (preceeding posts) were in person; standing around the said bucket, instead of the internet the tone and conslusions would have been sweeter. But hey; to each their own:cool:

[Snidley]

At the end of the day - it will work or it will just work for awhile. If they do come apart just weld them up again.

Kenny In regards to the tooth design on the original pic - it may be wrong but that's the way it was made and you were just repairing the unit as needed the way it was built not redesigning the functionality. and that's okay.

A lot of bucket's I've seen they the shanks are flipped the other way - and I can see the advantage to that possibly due to the leverage effect when ripping with the teeth, the pressure would leverage on the shank to the underside of the bucket as opposed to pulling on the weld.

Other than all the design criteria - the job looks good. It would be a good idea to do some hardfacing before everything gets all worn again.

[coalsmoke]

I suspect if this conversation (preceeding posts) were in person; standing around the said bucket, instead of the internet the tone and conslusions would have been sweeter. But hey; to each their own:cool:
SMT, I would think so too.


At the end of the day - it will work or it will just work for awhile. If they do come apart just weld them up again.

Kenny In regards to the tooth design on the original pic - it may be wrong but that's the way it was made and you were just repairing the unit as needed the way it was built not redesigning the functionality. and that's okay.

A lot of bucket's I've seen they the shanks are flipped the other way - and I can see the advantage to that possibly due to the leverage effect when ripping with the teeth, the pressure would leverage on the shank to the underside of the bucket as opposed to pulling on the weld.

Other than all the design criteria - the job looks good. It would be a good idea to do some hardfacing before everything gets all worn again.

Yes, kenny, at the end of the day, you followed the pictures, and were doing it as it was. At the very least, it would have seemed counter-intuitive to do it any different. It will work, and if the welds are storng it should work for some amount of time.


There's no doubt in my mind you are correct, I'm not an excavator operator in any way shape or form. I can do what I have to, but could never hire out operating one. I suspect I do more buckets (blades, teeth, floors, wearstrips) every January than you've seen your whole life. I've even engineered and built a few specialty buckets over the years.

I've got a question, this confuses me a bit. You're what, 23, 24 years old?? You keep telling us you're finishing up a degree (six years???) , telling us about all your experience operating equipment, telling us all your experience welding, obviously spending a lot of time on several message boards, and you have a girlfriend????? Well, that's all possible, maybe you completely cut sleeping and eating out of your life . . .

Well, you gotta realize, some of us here are twice your age, and started working back in the days and in occupations the child labor laws were just winked at (not so long ago), many many more years of experience than you.

I don't think anybody here begrudges you your opinion, your input is always valued, after all there are more than one way to do things, but your criticism earlier was somewhat offensive and personal, to be honest I think it was uncalled for, anybody would have gotten upset.

I agree, it mostly was uncalled for, I was offensive towards Kenny and had someone posted like that towards me I wouldn't have liked it much myself. When someone comes online asks for help and receives it from members, whether it be you, myself, or many of the other knowledgeable guys on here, and then says to a person responding that they don’t know what they are talking about, well, it can get tempers flared up a bit. The last few days I've been on edge more than usual, its final exam time and I am recovering from that surgery last week, so with the pain meds I find myself making some pretty wild mood swings. I offer my apologies to yourself and Kenny for letting these outside issues get involved.
You seem to be wondering about how I am at this point at my life, when like you say I'm be coming up on 24, and, I know what you are hinting at and I assure you this isn't smoke and mirrors.

I'll outline my life in a nutshell:
Normal childhood, went through high school as an A honour role kid, thought I'd do something with my brains, went into first year university in engineering, but discovered that the actual job description of being a mechanical engineer was not what I thought it would be all about. I thought it would be full of glory, status, money, and mostly doing creative design elements; boy was I wrong about that, but I figured this out pretty quick. While in first year, I had a 'life-changing experience' I was hit by a speeding head-on car that crossed my lane, doing between 160 and 180km/h, the combined speed of over 200km/h (it was a 50km zone), almost killed me and could have just as easily taken my girlfriend's life in the seat beside me. Needless to say, it shook me up bad enough to really re-assess what I wanted out of life, that was when I made the personal decision to not pursue engineering.

Ok, that was November 3, of 2001. From there I used my engineering status to transfer into a new program, Criminal Justice, because I thought it would be good to be able to help people, which as of this April I will have completed the 5'th and final year of this Crim degree, hence the 6 years of university. Once healed after that accident, I worked part time and full 4.5 month long summers for a logging outfit. I started near the bottom as a faller / bucker (basically the guy who traipses through the bush with a chainsaw). They soon learned I could weld, and had enough of a brain and farm-sense to figure out how to fix "in-field" problems. This was where I started to gain my experience in repairing moderate sized pieces of iron and I was put in charge of the service and welding truck. Near the end of that first year working for that logging company, I had the opportunity to do a bit of basic task jobs on equipment, basically getting my feet wet running cats, crawlers, excavators, etc. It soon became apparent I had a real knack for the excavator, and I was trained to run hoe/ excavator by the company lead hand who was one of the best operators in this regional area. From this point on, I progressed, eventually leaving that first company, and moving on to do some other works that mostly consisted of land-clearing, road-building, and large industrial preparation sites. I always found myself putting in extra hours welding, and sometimes would be spending almost as much time welding in a week as running an excavator. 85 hour workweeks were not uncommon for me, and it was easy to get all the work I wanted "in the bush" versus being in an office, and so the experience came quickly. About 18 months ago, I left running excavator full time / part time and went about setting up a mobile rig, and now as of this December I have been running my own business about a year.

It seems that people often equate being younger with less capable, and in fact, I'd go so far as to argue that it has been entrenched into most of our minds that the older a person is, the better, wiser, smarter, stronger, more knowledgeable, etc. they are, and I admit I am guilty of being my own hypocrite, believing this at times to. And, often, age does bring experience and wisdom. However, being young and capable can be frustrating when people deny respect solely on the basis of age.

I am very good at multi-tasking, consider myself a pretty smart pencil in the drawer, and am usually good at managing my time ;) but I admit most weeks I don't spend as much time with my girlfriend as I should. This Crim degree is nearing an end, as I'll have it finished this April, then I'll get my welding certs and there will be more time for living life. I hope this clears up some of the confusion. Have a good day Cal.:cool:

[calweld]

Have a good day Cal.:cool:

Oh, I'm having a very good day indeed :) :) The sun's out, birds are chirping, just got done BS'ing with a couple friends, now if only all this dam paperwork would do itself :mad:


It seems that people often equate being younger with less capable, . . . . .However, being young and capable can be frustrating when people deny respect solely on the basis of age.

That's a cross we all had to bear, it's part of life. In this case, age has nothing to do with it, I don't think you're any less capable, in fact I see a lot of myself in you at your age, working stupid amounts of hours, at various jobs and occupations, getting an education at the same time, picking up knowledge and experience everywhere you go (not just putting in time, but getting something out of it). At some point, when I was a little older than you are now, I realized I didn't know everything about everything :eek: (shocking relevation!!), that's when I realized I was going to have to specialize somewhat.

Whatever you think from my posts, actually I admire your drive and ambition, even without seeing that resume you just posted, no matter what you end up doing I'm sure you'll be successful, don't ever change that about yourself.

[J Hall]

Ahh shucks.....it's sweet when people kiss and makeup. ;)
Just kinda gives ya the warm fuzzies don't it

[calweld]

Hey hey hey now guys . . . don't get too comfortable with the "fuzziness" . . . give it a little bit, it'll all wear off, we'll be butting heads again in no time :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :D

[coalsmoke]

Oh, I'm having a very good day indeed :) The sun's out, birds are chirping, just got done BS'ing with a couple friends, now if only all this dam paperwork would do itself

That's a cross we all had to bear, it's part of life. In this case, age has nothing to do with it, I don't think you're any less capable, in fact I see a lot of myself in you at your age, working stupid amounts of hours, at various jobs and occupations, getting an education at the same time, picking up knowledge and experience everywhere you go (not just putting in time, but getting something out of it). At some point, when I was a little older than you are now, I realized I didn't know everything about everything :eek: (shocking relevation!!), that's when I realized I was going to have to specialize somewhat.

Whatever you think from my posts, actually I admire your drive and ambition, even without seeing that resume you just posted, no matter what you end up doing I'm sure you'll be successful, don't ever change that about yourself.

thank you;)


Hey hey hey now guys . . . don't get too comfortable with the "fuzziness" . . . give it a little bit, it'll all wear off, we'll be butting heads again in no time :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :D

yeah, that seem to be the constant:rolleyes:
Hey Hey, who are you calling a Butthead!:eek: :D :D

[J Hall]

Coalsmoke,
24 years old? you are doing well. Keep it up.
I turned 24 in 1986 and was working as a weldor and heavy equipment mechanic, as well as equipment operator. Had a Lincoln SAM 400 on a 1977 chevy 1 ton. The company had 50-60 peices of equipment as well as a crusher spread. Road jobs, coal mines, big equipment,Those were fun times.

[don-and-jen]

Around here(nevada) most people preheat the iron with a weed burner...This seems to work best, cheap and effective.