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d0rifto
09-28-2006, 05:40 PM
ive search the forums about why my oxy/actelyene cutting torch keeps popping but it continues to do it. when i attach the welding tip, it doesnt make and sounds, so i figure it could be the cutting torch itself. the kit is a brand new Victor Superrange II , and the cylinders and regulators are new also. i admit its been over a year since i last took a oxy/actelyene class at my community college, so i could have forgot some simple steps.

but i went step by step from the Victor owners manual, and cant figure out the problem. the popping sound even occurs when the flame is straight acetyelene.

any help is appreciated

coalsmoke
09-28-2006, 06:02 PM
with the popping is the flame also dissapearing into the tip, so that your torch looks like it has muzzleflash instead of a steady consistent flame?

Skipper
09-28-2006, 06:14 PM
I had the same problem with my rosebud the other day. I couldnt get it to burn right. I would light the acc, turn up the oxygen and then pow, the flame would go out and I noticed the rosebud and torch handle were heating up.

coalsmoke
09-28-2006, 06:19 PM
I had the same problem with my rosebud the other day. I couldnt get it to burn right. I would light the acc, turn up the oxygen and then pow, the flame would go out and I noticed the rosebud and torch handle were heating up.

what you have there is a flashback into the torch. Not a good thing by any means. You do have flashback arrestors on your regulators, right? If not, you're playing with fire in more ways than one.

Zrexxer
09-28-2006, 06:35 PM
ive search the forums about why my oxy/actelyene cutting torch keeps popping but it continues to do it. when i attach the welding tip, it doesnt make and sounds, so i figure it could be the cutting torch itself. the kit is a brand new Victor Superrange II You might check out this thread: http://www.hobartwelders.com/mboard/showthread.php?t=20758

d0rifto
09-28-2006, 07:31 PM
yea the Victor torch handle has built flashback arrestors, and check valves...

i do notice the flame has sparks coming out. i just got this kit brand new the other day. maybe ill stop by my welding shop that i got it from or call Victor

Skipper
09-28-2006, 07:33 PM
I got some but havent installed them yet. Guess I need to do that. Would low tank or line pressure cause this to happen?

prowess
09-28-2006, 08:10 PM
I was going to ask what pressures you are running to the torch.

I assume you have read the manual and are applying the CORRECT pressures via BOTH Acetylene AND Oxygen to THAT MODEL TORCH?

I am not trying to insult anyone, just running all the bases here. Torches and Rosebuds are obviously different pressure-wise than welding torches. I may vary my cut/rosebud torch slightly from my Smith manual, but I am pretty close. I may run 5 oxy and 5 acet to the welding torch, but I run 40 oxy and 10 acet to the cutting torch. It may be different for your application and YOUR torch. Obviously the manual will dictate this.

Sometimes a person not used to NEW REGULATORS sets the regulators incorrectly, meaning they READ the WRONG indication DIAL on the gauge? Again, just running the bases here. A student next to me in my O/A class had his set on, oh, about 45 psi C2H2 before the instructor caught the error.

I can not urge you enough to INSTALL FLASHBACKS ON YOUR REGULATORS and check valves on the torch handle. My Smith CUTTING torch has the anti-flashback head, but I still run checks on the torch handle and flashbacks on the regs. You do not want a flashback situation and "IF" that is what you are getting you need to find out WHY before you continue.
Torch pops can SOMETIMES also be caused by running too low a pressure on SOME torches, nozzle issues, shutting DOWN the torch incorrectly, and a few other malfunction issues.

Since your torch is new, I would suspect something OTHER than malfunction, but anything is possible.

lwj
09-28-2006, 08:51 PM
I noticed that my new torch and tips are coated with some kind of clear coat, I guess to keep metal looking new and shiny. Make sure that orifice is not plugged up with that clear coat, one of my tips was not fully open up. It was #4 and it looked like #1. One run with wire cleaner and it opened up to where it supposed to be.

Sberry
09-28-2006, 09:11 PM
Popping is mainly from too low fuel pressure. Crank it up to 7 or 8 #, open the fuel valve, give it some gas and see if it goes away. Very common with larger tips like rosebuds. 90% of the backflash is caused by this. You are starving the thing for fuel, its trying to burn back to get it.
when i attach the welding tip, it doesnt make and sounds, so i figure it could be the cutting torch itself. the kit is a brand The welding tip is smaller and requires less fuel, it will snap too if you keep turning down the fuel supply. I would not be jumping to the assumption first thing that its the equipment.

Sparkeee24
09-28-2006, 09:37 PM
Howdy Howdy! There are two things to cinsider with "bad sounds" from torch tips, cutting or welding.... one is a single or double pop, and that is a backfire, common and NOT very dangerous. A FLASHBACK is a steady hissing sound, or rapid gunshot sounds, like automattic fire wepon. THAT is very dangerous. A backfire is often caused from a spark blowing backwards into the orifice, and then back firing it out the orifice...often due to dirty steel, poor distance from material, dirty tips. A flashback, is usually dirty tips combined with poor gas flow regulation and such. I would not blame the equipment yet. I WOULD get a tip cleaner and run it through each orifice. I would also use a fine file, and file the face of the tip off. Just enough to take the orifice shape back to a squared off 90 degree edge, a true cylindrical shape, with no rounded edges. You would file before running the tip cleaner through. If you have a fresh new out of the box tip, I would put that in and give it a whirl. Good luck! Brian Lee Sparkeee27

fyoung
09-28-2006, 11:02 PM
Make sure your tip is sealing good and also that it is tight..if it's not tight it will pop.
Farris

dda52
09-28-2006, 11:11 PM
Yeah, that is what my new Victor did the other day. The tip wasn't seated quite right. It was tight, but not seating correctly. Swapped tips and all was well in Torchville.:D :cool:

prowess
09-29-2006, 07:24 AM
These are all good pointers.

However, the most important thing I will continue to stress is to READ YOUR MANUAL that came with the torch.

Follow the recommended PSI settings, and make sure they are right. Make sure you have everything set up correctly, and all connections are sealed and NOT leaking. Test with soapy water. You don't want to OVERTIGHTEN brass fittings. Use a simple tank wrench you can get from a welding supply shop if one did not come with your set, not a cresent wrench.

Blow out any foreign debris by slightly cracking the valves on both tanks before you hook up your regs and hoses. Blow out the protective powder in your hoses before you hook them up to a torch. Open the Oxy valve on your tanks SLOWLY when you dump the pressure into your oxy regulator, and then open it all the way. Open Acetylene tank valve 1/2 to 3/4 turn so you can get it shut down quickly if you have an emergency.

All this SHOULD be outlined in your manual. And I think you said you took an O/A course, so you should have the basic skill set you need.

FINALLY..... WE ARE NOT THERE. So these are just suggestions. We can't experience first hand what you do. Be safe and make sure all is well before proceeding. If I were to "guess' I would guess improper torch PSI setting. That's just a guess. It could be another issue.

Then have fun using your O/A setup!!!

hankj
09-29-2006, 09:49 AM
Take off the tip nut. Remove the tip. Check the mating surfaces for dirt/nicks/etc.; if they are OK, the tip nut was just too loose. If you nicked the tip, swap tips. If you nicked the seat, take it to a shop and have it reamed - 5 minutes, and usually free around here.

Put it back together and tighten the tip nut with a wrench! It needs to be tight, but not overtight. I usually chuck mine in the vise and tighten it until the tubes are just about to deflect. That's plenty tight.

Hank

Sig9mm
09-29-2006, 10:37 AM
If your tanks are too small, then you might be trying to flow too much to the blowpipe. I seem to recall there is a 7 to 1 ratio needed. I don't know if this could be causing too little flow or not. Remember that the pressure is static when the torch is off. Look at the pressure with the torch flowing and see if there is a big drop. Don't know the size of your tanks, but worth looking at.

Someone smarter weigh in here with better info if I'm off base, please.

prowess
09-29-2006, 09:43 PM
We interrupt this program to bring you a special news bulletin:

The rule of 1/7th is pretty straight forward.
You should not flow more then 1/7th of your tank's total volume per hour.
Easy to calculate.

You CAN (it IS possible) to flow more than this even with small bottles, that's why you need to keep an eye on how much you are consuming when using torches (like heating torches) that CAN consume greater quantities of Acetylene per hour than your tank can SAFELY provide. Bottles don't regulate how much you CAN flow. YOU need to regulate this. Think of it the easy way. You could always just crack an acetylene valve wide open and empty the bottle very quickly. I would not want to be around when you do this, however. :eek:

I have S and SO bottles (145 cubic on Acetylene) so I have to be careful not to bust the 1/7th rule when using some of my larger rosebud heating tips. These heating tips CAN use a greater amount of acetylene per hour (breaking the 1/7th rule) than my tank can SAFELY provide.

Since I don't do a HUGE amount of heating or cutting, it's not a concern for me. I just put on a rosebud, heat something for 4 or 5 minutes, take a break, then go back to brazing. I braze mostly. Not a huge fan of O/A welding.

ESAB even makes reference to this being a safe procedure. As long as the excessive flow of acetylene is limited to 5 or 10 minutes at a clip with 1/2 hour rest periods in between. Otherwise, I would have to use multiple bottles to accomplish longer heating sessions.

Now back to our regularly scheduled program.

jer29_11_13
09-30-2006, 06:42 AM
I got my Super Range II last year also purchased from the same guy on ebay. When I first used it popped immediately and I noticed a flame around the tip retaining nut. I just tightened it not quite as much as Hank :eek: but pretty tight and haven't had a problem since. Definitely check all machined mating surfaces for any damage, the manual says to only hand tighten the cutting attachment to the torch handle so as to not damage the o-rings, everything else use a wrench.

Sparkeee24
09-30-2006, 12:16 PM
Howdy Howdy! All the literature I have read states hand tight only, not tool tight. The nut is hexed so you can remove it with a wrench after having issues from over heating. HOWEVER !!! I too DO tighten the hex nut with a wrench, in the same manner as I would tighten an oil filter. 1/4 turn past hand tight. without a torque wrench, tightening something "tight" can be subjective. I ran into this with my bandsaw, and tightening the band "as tight as I can get it bye hand" as suggested. HAH that was horrible. Killed bunches of blades. Now I just tighten it to a "twang" and no worries, cutting awesome! and slowed the speed down. Back to your torch.... Good Luck! And take these ideas and lump them all together, and add them to your torch manual information without compromising safety if we say anything that conflicts the manual. Good Luck! Brian Lee Sparkeee27

hankj
09-30-2006, 12:29 PM
Quoted from the Victor Welding, Cutting & Heating Guide, Page 34:

"4. Insert the tip in the cutting attachement head. Tighten the tip nut securely with a wrench (empahasis added) (15 to 20 lbs. torque)..........."

Hank

Sig9mm
09-30-2006, 09:29 PM
We interrupt this program to bring you a special news bulletin:

The rule of 1/7th is pretty straight forward.
You should not flow more then 1/7th of your tank's total volume per hour.
Easy to calculate.

You CAN (it IS possible) to flow more than this even with small bottles, that's why you need to keep an eye on how much you are consuming when using torches (like heating torches) that CAN consume greater quantities of Acetylene per hour than your tank can SAFELY provide. Bottles don't regulate how much you CAN flow. YOU need to regulate this. Think of it the easy way. You could always just crack an acetylene valve wide open and empty the bottle very quickly. I would not want to be around when you do this, however. :eek:

I have S and SO bottles (145 cubic on Acetylene) so I have to be careful not to bust the 1/7th rule when using some of my larger rosebud heating tips. These heating tips CAN use a greater amount of acetylene per hour (breaking the 1/7th rule) than my tank can SAFELY provide.

Since I don't do a HUGE amount of heating or cutting, it's not a concern for me. I just put on a rosebud, heat something for 4 or 5 minutes, take a break, then go back to brazing. I braze mostly. Not a huge fan of O/A welding.

ESAB even makes reference to this being a safe procedure. As long as the excessive flow of acetylene is limited to 5 or 10 minutes at a clip with 1/2 hour rest periods in between. Otherwise, I would have to use multiple bottles to accomplish longer heating sessions.

Now back to our regularly scheduled program.
Thanks for that clarification--in which case the size of the tanks can't be the problem... so it must be something else.

I guess we'll have to wait for d0rifto to get back with a follow-up to tell us what finally fixed the popping... assuming it got fixed. Anyway, I learned something--which made it all worthwhile to me. Thanks.

prowess
09-30-2006, 09:50 PM
Thanks for that clarification--in which case the size of the tanks can't be the problem... so it must be something else.

I guess we'll have to wait for d0rifto to get back with a follow-up to tell us what finally fixed the popping... assuming it got fixed. Anyway, I learned something--which made it all worthwhile to me. Thanks.

No problem. Many of the Ops here, along with my O/A instructor at the night school I attended, contributed to my knowlege as well.

One note, as I am sure you and others are aware, is that your post had merit if in fact the tanks (no matter what size) were too low on fuel to supply enough flow to to the torch. Only the Op can answer that.

Anytime an Op (including myself) is having issues with O/A I am concerned. This can be a dangerous business if not respected, so safety first in my book!

That being said, I love O/A and sometimes wonder how I got along without it!

Anxious to hear how he made out.

calweld
09-30-2006, 10:01 PM
In almost every case in my experience, the cause of a "popping" cutting torch can be traced back to either a bad seal at the tip, or a bad seal where the two halves of the torch come together. On a victor, this could be due to using off-brand tips (Uniweld was notorious for popping a few years ago, but is supposedly ok now), dropping or damaging a tip on the seats, getting dirt on the seats inside the torchhead, either preventing a good seal or damaging the seats there. Where the torch parts screw together, inspect the o-rings, if they are damaged, missing, or just too compressed to seal they need to be replaced.

SFT
10-01-2006, 07:12 AM
Quoted from the Victor Welding, Cutting & Heating Guide, Page 34:

"4. Insert the tip in the cutting attachement head. Tighten the tip nut securely with a wrench (empahasis added) (15 to 20 lbs. torque)..........."

HankInch pounds or foot pounds....

hankj
10-01-2006, 10:49 AM
I't doesn't spcifiy inch/foot pounds, but 20 lb./in. ain't too tight!

Hank

d0rifto
10-02-2006, 11:26 PM
wow thanks for all the replies!! i took everything apart and cleaned it, and tighted the cutting head more. the poppin is gone!! thanks everyone!

tooldude56
10-03-2006, 12:03 AM
Obviously,you guys arent aware of the ongoing problem with the superange 2 kits.I have had to send in 2 of the cutting attachments because of the mentioned popping problem.The problem was with faulty maching in the attachment,itself.The distributors were well aware of the problem and quickly sent out new cutting attachments.I also thought that it was a problem with not getting them tight enough,but I was wrong.I reccomend calling you ever you bought it from and I am quite sure that they will gladly and promptly take care of the problem.

tooldude56

prowess
10-03-2006, 08:28 AM
Obviously,you guys arent aware of the ongoing problem with the superange 2 kits.I have had to send in 2 of the cutting attachments because of the mentioned popping problem.The problem was with faulty maching in the attachment,itself.The distributors were well aware of the problem and quickly sent out new cutting attachments.

tooldude56

Interesting, since d0rifto stated it was brand new. I would go back and ask the dealer if they had any idea of the issue before they sold it to me. Sounds like they are unaware as well or perhaps it was bought via retail or online.

When it comes to O/A, I go through my local dealer.

mikesa200
10-03-2006, 12:00 PM
Hello,

If it is a two piece torch ( cutting or welding) make sure the mixer o-rings are not damaged. I have had this happen to with my harris outfits and that was all that was needed. I got them from the company called Seal Seat. They are the people who harris told me to call.

RawkRash
10-03-2006, 04:03 PM
I realize that the problem has been solved, but just to throw one more possible solution on the pile for future searchers . . .

A friend had the same problem with a new torch he'd bought and the problem turned out to be that it had an oxy/propane tip on the torch and he was trying to use it on acetylene.

A replacement oxy/acetylene tip cured the problem.