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Errol
07-28-2006, 09:03 AM
I have two pieces of Grader Blade steel 8" wide x 5' long x 5/8" thick that I want to weld on to the leading edge of a tractor bucket to renew the cutting edge. The bucket width is 8ft, so I would have to cut the Grader Blade steel to 4' pieces and then butt weld two pieces together, then weld this to the bucket. I've previously used old flattened leaf springs for the same purpose in the past. I just used 6011 stick with lots of heat. But I've never welded on Grader Blades. Has anyone done this?

greywynd
07-28-2006, 11:42 AM
A few years ago I used a section of grader blade as a cutting edge on my mini excavator bucket. After cracking it up a couple times and welding it all back up, I ended up destroying it beyond salvageable last year in busy time of the season. Ended up buying a cutting edge and having another welder do the repairs for me, I was just too busy.

I know there are some ways to make this stuff weld with less problems, but thinking it over now, when this stuff is designed to be bolted on, I now hesitate to go at welding it. I figure the manufacturer isn't worrying about weldability for a grader blade being bolted on.

Mark

DetailerDave
07-28-2006, 11:44 AM
It's most likely AR (abrasion resistant) plate. But- I also saw manganese steel used in similar high impact situations. To weld it to the bucket, If memory serves me, stainless steel electrodes (or wire) works good. If manganese, one pass of stainless, then weave mang-jet (lincoln brand name) over it to size weld desired.
If needed, weave hardfacing rod/wire over the weld for good wear characteristics.

lars66
07-28-2006, 01:24 PM
You will need 300 degree pre heat & maintain it thru the welding cycle. 7018 Lo-Hy. or a good dual shield flux core wire like Exel-Arc71 or Lincoln 71m & c25 gas. I wouldent be so quick to weld the pcs together just use a 5' pc. & a 3' with the ends squared up so they meet up nice under the bucket. Also the bucket bottom will have to be back bent or restrained by clamping it & the cutting edge pcs. to an I beam thru welding cycle. the welding should start in the middle & toward the out side skipping side to side both on top & underneath.

rvannatta
07-28-2006, 09:13 PM
I know there are some ways to make this stuff weld with less problems, but thinking it over now, when this stuff is designed to be bolted on, I now hesitate to go at welding it. I figure the manufacturer isn't worrying about weldability for a grader blade being bolted on.

Mark

Grader cutter bits are special things---not to be confused with 'grader blades' The blade itself is usually just standard 'iron', but the cutter bits are something else again. If you go out and grade a road (I have) you appreciate what the cutter bit is suppose to do. If it is a gravel road you are suppose to be able to whistle down the road scraping at the gravel and 10-15 mph and still have a cutter bit left when you get the job done. This is extreme abrasion the ability to stand high heats. Once you get off the gravel and want to dig with with it, you (as a grader operator) expect it to be as sharp as a paring knife and able to cut into anything, and of course when you hook it on a stump at 10 mph it isn't suppose to break.

For the most part they do all of the above, but thte manufacturing process to make them usually involves casting them, because the product is not machinable, nor is it very flexible or user friendly.:(

J Hall
07-28-2006, 10:43 PM
grader blades bolt to the moldboard. Cutter bits????

greywynd
07-28-2006, 10:56 PM
Grader cutter bits are special things---not to be confused with 'grader blades' The blade itself is usually just standard 'iron', but the cutter bits are something else again. If you go out and grade a road (I have) you appreciate what the cutter bit is suppose to do. If it is a gravel road you are suppose to be able to whistle down the road scraping at the gravel and 10-15 mph and still have a cutter bit left when you get the job done. This is extreme abrasion the ability to stand high heats. Once you get off the gravel and want to dig with with it, you (as a grader operator) expect it to be as sharp as a paring knife and able to cut into anything, and of course when you hook it on a stump at 10 mph it isn't suppose to break.

For the most part they do all of the above, but thte manufacturing process to make them usually involves casting them, because the product is not machinable, nor is it very flexible or user friendly.:(

I've only ran a grader once (an old Cat 10 with a gas pup motor, all mechanical) and I know the cutting edge would sometimes steam if/when you got into damp ground with it. I agree, that cutting edge is amazing stuff, hard enough to withstand abrasion, but tough enough to take the pounding too. I know if it were me though, instead of trying to use a cutting edge like this, I'd be buying a replacement cutting edge for the loader bucket.

Mark

Errol
07-29-2006, 10:12 AM
Thank you all for your thoughtful comments. Yes, I believe the steel I will be attempting to weld is martensitic, designed for abrasion resistance. The bucket is on my neighbour's farm tractor. He is 80 yrs old can't see too well any more and has brought me the steel plates for me to do the welding for him. He will bring his tractor over in the next few days for the welding job. The original cutting edge is pretty worn down and cracked in several places, appears to be 1/2" material. I thought I would cut back the original edge to straighten it out and then weld in the new plate to the existing material. Lars66 suggested 7018. I thought I might do an initial pass of 6010 or 6011, then clean it up, and finish with a few passes of ER70S6 with the wire feed. I remember my old uncle who said when in doubt, use 6013. He called it Farmer's rod, because it was so forgiving and easy to work with. But I agree, that a 70 series rod would give superior strength. I'll definitely use a good weave pass as suggested by DetailerDave but unfortunately don't have any stainless wire. Only some nirod sticks. Thanks for your help.

lars66
07-29-2006, 12:26 PM
Thank you all for your thoughtful comments. Yes, I believe the steel I will be attempting to weld is martensitic, designed for abrasion resistance. The bucket is on my neighbour's farm tractor. He is 80 yrs old can't see too well any more and has brought me the steel plates for me to do the welding for him. He will bring his tractor over in the next few days for the welding job. The original cutting edge is pretty worn down and cracked in several places, appears to be 1/2" material. I thought I would cut back the original edge to straighten it out and then weld in the new plate to the existing material. Lars66 suggested 7018. I thought I might do an initial pass of 6010 or 6011, then clean it up, and finish with a few passes of ER70S6 with the wire feed. I remember my old uncle who said when in doubt, use 6013. He called it Farmer's rod, because it was so forgiving and easy to work with. But I agree, that a 70 series rod would give superior strength. I'll definitely use a good weave pass as suggested by DetailerDave but unfortunately don't have any stainless wire. Only some nirod sticks. Thanks for your help.
You need to get ALL the old blade OFF & then put the new one on the same way. I suggest you read my post again, it wasnt random suggestions its the way it has to be done. If you weld this up with out preheat & maintaining it & no backbend or restraint the cutting edge will break at the welds or the bucket bottom will be so drooped out of shape it will be a pain to use.

vicegrip
07-29-2006, 12:48 PM
You need to get ALL the old blade OFF & then put the new one on the same way. I suggest you read my post again, it wasnt random suggestions its the way it has to be done. If you weld this up with out preheat & maintaining it & no backbend or restraint the cutting edge will break at the welds or the bucket bottom will be so drooped out of shape it will be a pain to use.

Right out of High-school I worked at the hwy-dept and watched a fellow do this , if you don't follow Lars66 to the letter , your results could be dissapointing:eek:
the mechanic did exactly the same thing lars posted:cool:

coalsmoke
07-30-2006, 12:50 AM
This type of AR and Q&T steel is my meat and potatoes, as I come from a heavy equipment background and this is what my business specializes in. Lars has you going the right direction. If you mess up, skip, or alter a step, it could ruin the entire operation. For most AR and Q&T coming out of our (our being north American) mills, the preheat must be at or above 225F and not more than 400F, and interpass temp must be maintained, but be careful you don't cook the piece with multiple passes, the temp can creep up without you realizing it. I root my open bevels and prepped joints with 60105P+, then grind, and from that point on, EVERYTHING else that goes into that piece is in the form of a Low-hydrogen consumable. Don't even waste your time with 6011 or 6013 as your hot passes. If it works out with those rods then its not an optimal steel for a cutting edge, unless its a laminate, but that's something else entirely. I'm in the lower mainland, close enough that you could call me if you had a specific question, or e-mail is fine and its free.

Errol
07-30-2006, 09:44 AM
I'm getting a bit leery about even trying this now, looks like there is a good chance of ruining my good neighbour's bucket. It appears like the main bucket material is 3/16 or 1/4" in thickness, so I originally thought it wouldn't make sense to try to weld that directly to the grader blade steel. I originally was qoing to torch off the worn out using a nice straight edge to leave a 3" wide strip of the original 1/2". I thought this would be a good way, because then I could weld nicely 1/2" to 5/8". But now, as you pointed out Lars and Coalsmoke, that doesn't make sense. So I will torch off the entire old 1/2" part. Then I will roll a little lip down on the 1/4" material, clamp to the new steel in preparation for welding. I have one last question. Would it be better to do a couple of lower amp passes... or turn up the heat a bit and do it with a weave and try for one pass?

lars66
07-30-2006, 12:17 PM
This type of AR and Q&T steel is my meat and potatoes, as I come from a heavy equipment background and this is what my business specializes in. Lars has you going the right direction. If you mess up, skip, or alter a step, it could ruin the entire operation. For most AR and Q&T coming out of our (our being north American) mills, the preheat must be at or above 225F and not more than 400F, and interpass temp must be maintained, but be careful you don't cook the piece with multiple passes, the temp can creep up without you realizing it. I root my open bevels and prepped joints with 60105P+, then grind, and from that point on, EVERYTHING else that goes into that piece is in the form of a Low-hydrogen consumable. Don't even waste your time with 6011 or 6013 as your hot passes. If it works out with those rods then its not an optimal steel for a cutting edge, unless its a laminate, but that's something else entirely. I'm in the lower mainland, close enough that you could call me if you had a specific question, or e-mail is fine and its free.
I see you still don't understand what were trying to get across.WHY don't you take Coalsmoke up on his offer of a pm & then a phone call. I assure you the little bit spent with the call will seem like nothing if you go ahead with this & screw it up.Good intentions can go bad real quick. CALL HIM!!!!

Errol
07-30-2006, 01:08 PM
I see you still don't understand what were trying to get across.WHY don't you take Coalsmoke up on his offer of a pm & then a phone call. I assure you the little bit spent with the call will seem like nothing if you go ahead with this & screw it up.Good intentions can go bad real quick. CALL HIM!!!![/QUOTE]

You're right Lars, that's why I asked for clarification. Sometimes you have to hit me over the head to make me see something however obvious. (Just ask my wife) I appreciate your patience and will contact Coalsmoke.