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CaptNemo
05-20-2003, 11:40 AM
I got my new TIG welder wired up last night and played with it for about 30 minutes. The aluminum welds looked pretty nice, but on hot rolled steel the welds weren't pretty. I was using 3/32" ER70S-2 rod on 11 gauge, and didn't remove the mill scale. I'm going to try some ER70S-6 wire that I have and remove the mill scale to see if that helps.

What is a good reference type book for a beginning TIG weldor to get started in the right direction.

BTW, don't be mad, but this one's red. I wanted a blue unit to match my other 2, but the price I got made my decision.

Ed in Ga
05-20-2003, 11:59 AM
Capt Nemo,
Tig book I liked the best is Gas Tungsten Arc Welding handbook by William Minnick. Available from Barnes & Noble, Amazon or any of the rest.

Any metal needs to be very clean to tig weld. Some others with more experience can tell you more. Don't worry about the color mine is mauve.
Ed

CaptNemo
05-20-2003, 01:08 PM
I got a Square Wave TIG 175 Pro.

I'll look for that book.

I wanted to stay all blue, but I got this one for a little less than 10% over their cost.

I need to remember the 3 C's in TIG: CLEAN, CLEAN & CLEAN !!!

Also, when welding aluminum, the bead has a frosted look to it ( From the AC Cleaning action ). Is there something I can do to minimze it and get a shiny bead finish ??

Dan
05-20-2003, 01:13 PM
Before you weld on hot rolled mild steel you always need to remove the mill scale. Mill scale is an oxide which will be highly contaminant to your weld. Sand the metal to a bright shiny color. ER70S-2 is a better filler rod for hot rolled then ER70S-6. The reason being because ER70S-2 has higher levels of de-oxizers in it. Also, instead of using a 3/32 diameter filler rod on 11 ga try a 1/16" diameter rod for now. This will make the puddle wetter, which will make things a little easier for you. As far as a book I d recommend Miller's Gas Tungsten Arc Welding . You can find this at Miller's website. Now the best deal on this book is to buy it as part of the student package that Miller offers. By buying the student package you get quite few other books for about the same price as if you just bought the GTAW book seperate. I bought this package a about 2 years ago, and recently they updated the GTAW book so I be ordering the p[ackage again to get the updated book looks like I ll just have a second copy of the other books.

Hobart Expert Rock
05-20-2003, 01:38 PM
CAPTNEMO..........NO PROBLEM ON YOUR CHOICE......... IF COST IS THE DECIDING FACTOR THEN THAT IS A DETERMINING FACTOR.......... WHICH MILLER DID YOU TRY AN INVERTER OR THE 180SD.......... JUST CURIOUS............. DID YOU TRY ANYONE ELSE'S SUCH AS THE OTHER COMPETITORS......................... WERE ALWAYS ASKING QUESTIONS AREN'T WE........... HAVE SOME FUN WITH IT NOW.......... WHAT IS YOUR FIRST PROJECT GOING TO BE.................?.................ROCK......... ..........:cool:
SSCOTT@MILLERWELDS.COM

Dan
05-20-2003, 02:34 PM
Hey ROCK

I run the Lincoln squarewave 175 at work and have test drove the the Syncrowave 180. The Syncrowave 180 is definately the better machine. The arc starts on Lincolns 175 are poor. What I mean by this is that it takes the arc a while to stabilize on the 175 especially at lower current settings. Where as the Syncrowaves arc is right there when you press the peddle. Heck in the arc start category even my Econotig beats the Lincoln. The Econotigs arc start is just as good as the Syncrowaves. If my electrical circuit had the capability to handle a Syncrowave 180 I d be buying the machine in June. Oh well I guess you Guys and Gals at Miller won t care if I get a MM 251 instead.:D In the end if something happens that kills getting the MM 251 Im still going to come out of the deal with at least a MM 175.:D Either way Im not loosing. But Im hoping disaster does strike, because I really want the MM 251.

Hobart Expert Rock
05-20-2003, 02:59 PM
HEY DAN...........IF I HAD MY DRUTHERS......... I WOULD SAY PURCHASE ALL OF THEM..........:D ....... BUT IN THE END IT IS STILL YOUR DECISION....... WE KNOW THAT.......... YES I'VE EVEN TRIED THE 175 ON SOME MATERIAL AND KNOW WHAT THEY DO........ I WOULD NOT WANT TO SEE A DISASTER HAPPEN......... ON THE MM251 DO YOU WANT ME TO GET THE FOLKS AT LIGHT INDUSTRIAL TO AUTOGRAPH IT FOR YOU:D :D :D ..... MIKE, MARIE, KEVIN, AND DOUG.............:D ......... AS ALWAYS THANKS FOR YOUR CONTINUED SUPPORT......................ROCK...............:c ool:
SSCOTT@MILLERWELDS.COM

rangerod
05-20-2003, 08:57 PM
CaptNemo

Can you tell me how the arc starts on your machine are? Have you encountered any problems with poor arc starts? I am curious since you have a new & different machine. We have 2 Miller Aircrafters at work but both do not start the arc the same. One is decidedly better than the other. I can't figure what it is. Same settings, changed gas bottles, tig torches ect... yet one is better than the other I don't get it :confused: We also have a Lincoln TIG 300 machine that the arc starts are just as good as the Millers even at the lower current settings. So let us know how yours is.

Like Dan D said when tig welding everything must be nice & clean with all the mill scale plus other contaminants removed before striking the arc. Have a good one:cool:

CaptNemo
05-20-2003, 10:47 PM
First off, Thanks guys for helping point me in the right direction.

rangerod
Arc starts don't seem to be a problem. Ease down on the amptrol and it starts right up.

Dan,
Is the Sudent Package you are talking about at the bottom of the page, http://millerwelds.com/education/tools/#books and $ 25.00 ?

Rock, I had tested a Synchrowave 250, before ( it was my first try at TIG welding, the instructor asked me how long I had been using a TIG. I looked at my wrist watch and told him "About 5 minutes". I guess that was a good thing ). It was a nice machine, but well beyond my needs and means.

As for projects: I have a 1940 Plymouth Pickup truck that's getting street rodder with a Pro-Street look and a 476" Big Block Mopar with a Supercharger.
Here's a photo of the mocked up engine:
http://dodgetrucks.org/photopost/data/614802.jpg

Hobart Expert Rock
05-21-2003, 06:33 AM
AH CAPTAIN NEMO.......... YOU GET A CHANCE ZIP ON OVER TO THE MILLERWEBSITE AND CHECK OUT MOTORSPORTS..... I HAVE SOME PHOTO'S ON THEIR SHOWING A TEAM WE SPONSER..... AA/FX............. 392 CHRYSLER ETC.............. 140-147 IN THE 1/8 MILE BRACKET........... SHOULD ZIP 200 OR SO IN THE 1/4.... DEFINATELY NOT STREET BUT I DO LIKE THOSE OLD CHRYSLER'S........... HMMMMMM 1940 PLYMOUTH.....PICKUP.... NICE PROJECT................:D ....................WE WILL BE SEEING PICTURES THEN AS YOU GO ALONG................THAT WOULD BE NICE...............HAVE SOME FUN NOW.................ROCK...........:cool:
SSCOTT@MILLERWELDS.COM

Scott V
05-21-2003, 09:53 AM
I was kind of wondering if you have welded with a good ac/dc inverter?Seems like if you did you would forget all about those transformer machines.If you haven't you should at least try one before you buy a transformer ac/dc.All the ones out now have the same type of starting setup as the econotig/SD 180,capacitor start.no hi frequency generator.

Hobart Expert Rock
05-21-2003, 10:02 AM
RANGEROD.........HMMMMM 2 AIRCRAFTERS AND THEY BOTH DIFFER ON STARTING.......... I THINK I WILL HAVE DAVE FROM TIG ANSWER THIS ONE FOR YOU..........2 THINKS THAT COME TO MIND ARE...... ARE THEY OF THE SAME VINTAGE............?....... QUITE A FEW CHANGES OVER THE YEARS... AND DO THEY BOTH DO THE SAME KINDA OF WELDING.....OR ANOTHER WAY OF LOOKING AT THAT IS DO THE OPERATORS SWITCH MACHINES.......... I THINK DAVE WILL BE ALONG SOON SO WE WILL LET HIM ASK FURTHER QUESTIONS......... LET'S SEE WHAT WE CAN DO.......... ROCK..:cool:
SSCOTT@MILLERWELDS.COM

Dan
05-21-2003, 11:09 AM
Originally posted by Hobart Expert Rock
HEY DAN...........IF I HAD MY DRUTHERS......... I WOULD SAY PURCHASE ALL OF THEM..........:D ....... BUT IN THE END IT IS STILL YOUR DECISION....... WE KNOW THAT.......... YES I'VE EVEN TRIED THE 175 ON SOME MATERIAL AND KNOW WHAT THEY DO........ I WOULD NOT WANT TO SEE A DISASTER HAPPEN......... ON THE MM251 DO YOU WANT ME TO GET THE FOLKS AT LIGHT INDUSTRIAL TO AUTOGRAPH IT FOR YOU:D :D :D ..... MIKE, MARIE, KEVIN, AND DOUG.............:D ......... AS ALWAYS THANKS FOR YOUR CONTINUED SUPPORT......................ROCK...............:c ool:
SSCOTT@MILLERWELDS.COM

Rock

You folks at Miller would need to buy a whole bunch of potato chips or corn chips from my work before I could afford to buy all three at one time.

Having the folks in light industrial autograph the MM 251 would be cool, however the only problem is then I wouldn t want to use the machine. My HH 135 is still on display in the living room here at home. Yes, I have welded with it. I ran a little fluxcore wire through it on some 3/16" mildsteel, and was quite impressed with the results.

Dan
05-21-2003, 11:31 AM
Originally posted by Scott V
I was kind of wondering if you have welded with a good ac/dc inverter?Seems like if you did you would forget all about those transformer machines.If you haven't you should at least try one before you buy a transformer ac/dc.All the ones out now have the same type of starting setup as the econotig/SD 180,capacitor start.no hi frequency generator.

Scott

What took you so long? I was expecting a reply from you yesterday.:) :)

No, I have never tried an AC/DC inverter. I only had the need to use DC so far. So the inverters that I have used are Miller's Maxstar 140, and Thermal Arc's Pee Wee 150, 160 and 190. All four of these machines were excellent.

Scott, an inverter is the way that I will have to go, to replace my Econotig, because even though I personally prefer a transformer machine, I just don t have the input circuit that will run a larger transformer machine. Right now, since I have a TIG machine I m just waiting to see what happens with the Dynasty 200. Im hoping some type of price reduction will take place eventually.

Scott V
05-21-2003, 11:57 AM
Dan,That was the right answer.:D

Hobart Expert Rock
05-21-2003, 12:31 PM
DAN.............:D ..I JUST LOOKED IN THE RECONDITIONED LIST... AND THERE IS A DYNASTY 300 IN THERE...........HAVE YOUR LOCAL WELDING DISTRIBUTOR CHECK FOR EXACT PRICEING AND AVAILABILITY......................ROCK............ .........:cool:
SSCOTT@MILLERWELDS.COM

Scott V
05-21-2003, 04:34 PM
Dan,there is something else about buying a reconditioned inverter.If it was in there demo fleet for Miller reps to use, you would be fine.It's the inverters that have a problem like a board that blows every year or so,and it works until the next time it's fixed.Some inverters have those type problems,and with less warranty time with the reconds, I would be real careful about those machines.This comes from my friend that deals with those problems all the time.The three year warranty is pretty good to have, to tell if you have one of thse problem child inverters.:eek:That said,I would see if you can tell where the machine came from,And maybe it was a demo that they just put a new cover on.:cool: Like Rock says, it's your money.:D

Thermal-arc has the same type recond machines also,so be careful there also.

CaptNemo
05-21-2003, 08:19 PM
The inverters were out of my price range. I have a MM175 for the day-to-day welding, so I didn't want to drop a mint on another machine after I just bought a Spectrum 375.
Fot those not keeping score, that's 3 machines in about 9 months.
The TIG came out of the welding supply's demo fleet, and didn't have but a couple of hours ( If that much ). It still had the original tungsten and it wasn't shortened up.

BTW, I ordered the Miller Student Package last night.

Rock, I came here from there. Poor Andy doesn't have a lot of traffic over there, but it is a nice board.
I used to work in the drag racing industry, on funny cars and dragsters. It brings back alot of memories.

cope
05-21-2003, 09:09 PM
Originally posted by CaptNemo
The inverters were out of my price range. I have a MM175 for the day-to-day welding, so I didn't want to drop a mint on another machine after I just bought a Spectrum 375.
Fot those not keeping score, that's 3 machines in about 9 months.
The TIG came out of the welding supply's demo fleet, and didn't have but a couple of hours ( If that much ). It still had the original tungsten and it wasn't shortened up.

BTW, I ordered the Miller Student Package last night.

Rock, I came here from there. Poor Andy doesn't have a lot of traffic over there, but it is a nice board.
I used to work in the drag racing industry, on funny cars and dragsters. It brings back alot of memories.

Andy doesn't get to spend as much time on the board either.

rangerod
05-21-2003, 09:22 PM
Rock

Just for info, this condition has me stumped:confused: I did not get a chance to look at the machines today I will look at them tommorow. We have swiitched out everything possible with the same two machines but same condition exists. Both are only used for TIG & have not been used for Arc as long as I have been in the shop. Both are used for Aluminum, Cobalt, A286, Inconel, 4130 & every once in a while magnesium. Once the arc stops dancing around there is no difference that I can tell & power seems the same. Do you think the HF might be going bad? Both machines are hard wired in, did have an electrician come into shop & state that we had pretty much exhausted all the connections we could install for equipment because the electrical transformer could not handle anymore. In welding area we have 5 transformer machines, pirahna ironworker, 12" grinder, 250 dx mig welder & plasma cutter. I am left to think it is an internal problem. Since we have a syncro 351 & Lincoln 300 in addtion to aircrafters there are enough machines to go around unless it gets busy with thin material work. Usually this one machine is avoided when a thin material critical airfraft part comes in. If you have any ideas we might check it would be appreciated but the checks will have to be able to be accomlished in house because it is not feasable to remove machine from service & taken into repair for just this issue. Maybe I missed something in trouble shooting. Sorry about being long, Thanks

Hobart Expert Rock
05-22-2003, 06:03 AM
RANGEROD.......... I THINK IF I DID ANYTHING I WOULD FIRST CHECK THE GAP ON THE HF POINTS THEN SEE HOW PITTED UP THEY ARE...............AT YOUR CONVENIENCE...........ROCK........:cool:
SSCOTT@MILLERWELDS.COM

Service
05-23-2003, 11:36 AM
This is for Rangerod
Regarding your starts with the Aircrafters
THe way we are able to jump a gap with a low voltage (the stantard open circuit votlage of a tig welder is below 90 volts) is done by making a low resistance path. This path is made by the high frequency ionizing the argon gas. Thus as the high frequency is jumping the gap it is making a path. Once the path is low enough in resistance the welding current flows.
Now what can cause the arc not to start is weak hf, turbulant or insufficient gas flow or to low of open circuit voltage and sometimes a combination of the above.
If you have ruled out gas I would consentrate on the high frequency. These Aircrafters are not new so just going through and doing a good maintence on the high frequency circuit (cleaning it up and tightening connections) will have some positive effect on both units. Next I would check out the points if they are all pitted up I would replace them and regap them at .008. If all this doesn't fix the starts then usually the high frequency capacitor is needing to be changed.
The part number of the points 020603 and the hf capacitor is 096761.
Let me know if this helps.

rangerod
05-23-2003, 04:41 PM
Thanks I pretty much did what you suggested already & left a seperate post on it. The capacitor might be a candidate but like I said I told Rock I would but new contactors first & see where we go from there. Yes those machine have been around quite a while & for a transformer machine this is pretty much the first problem I have had with these machines in like 12 years, & its even a minor issue at that. That is kind of why I am stuck on trnaformer machine for the time being, Just call me old fashined I guess:D Thanks for the help I'll see how it goes & update if something new comes up:cool: