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ajpulley
01-02-2006, 06:54 PM
I've been reading about pushing and pulling techniques. I was taught to stick weld by pulling- I've never tried pushing. I also was taught to move the electrode in a upside-down "U" as I move down the material, and have controlled the puddle this way (whether right or wrong, I can't say).

Is it the same for MIG, and what do you do when you are pushing? Do you invert the movement to a right-side-up "U"?

I'm looking for threads, information and opinions on this. What do you do?

NOS
01-02-2006, 07:08 PM
With a wriefeed, ( gmaw or fcaw) I weld verticle DOWN. With smaw I weld verticle UP,,,unless DOWN works better! :rolleyes:


EDIT; Guess I missed the point! :o

rcoulas
01-02-2006, 07:28 PM
Hi ajpulley,

With stick (smaw) you pull the puddle this allows the flux to do it's job. You also have to pull with flux core wire feed (fcaw) for the same reason. With mig (gmaw) you do not have to worry about flux but have sheilding gas and therefore you can push or pull.
If you push the puddle, this is the method most used, you get a very nice looking weld. You can pull the puddle usually when you want better penetration. This is just a general guideline hope it helps.

Randy

ajpulley
01-02-2006, 07:44 PM
Hi ajpulley,

With stick (smaw) you pull the puddle this allows the flux to do it's job. You also have to pull with flux core wire feed (fcaw) for the same reason. With mig (gmaw) you do not have to worry about flux but have sheilding gas and therefore you can push or pull.
If you push the puddle, this is the method most used, you get a very nice looking weld. You can pull the puddle usually when you want better penetration. This is just a general guideline hope it helps.

Randy
Thanks for that Randy. I never considered the issue regarding the flux. I was aware of the penetration, or so I've been reading. When you push when welding with MIG, do you still move the wire in a "U" motion, or is that just technique that varies from person to person, or from type of weld to type of weld? That's really what I am looking for.

Skooter
01-02-2006, 07:46 PM
Take a look at this:

http://www.hobartwelders.com/mboard/showthread.php?t=14140


Andrew

treeplanter
01-02-2006, 07:49 PM
aj---with stick i was taught to pull on fillet--horizontal welds due to the penetration you want in the material you are welding--for vertical welding i was tought you need a fast freeze rod such as 6010 or6011for vertical down on the root pass then say 6018 to cover that pass going vertical up. 6013 isn`t too bad a rod either. i was told vertical down is not a very strong weld by itself. as for mig we only use vertical down for stringering parts together and only vertical up if we can not get the part into the flat position. back to your ? on the position of the rod--if you use the vertical down for your root pass then i use the triangle--in--out--over-- for the next pass going vertical up with the rod pointing slightly up. with mig i use the same technigue. as you can see i`m not fond with vertical down by itself. hope you can use some of this. treeplanter

bugspray
01-02-2006, 08:01 PM
I used a stick welder for about 2 years. I finally got a MIG and it was hard for me to switch from a drag to push. From what I've read, pull creates more penetration anyways. Always vertical weld up. I've done a verticle weld down to cap it (makes it look nice), just turn up the heat

Meach
01-02-2006, 08:22 PM
I read these threads very quickly so if this info is a repeat I am sorry. I didnt see anyone address the issue of your question regarding the upside down U. My brother always weaves or "U"'s as he welds flat, horiz and down (He cant weld up) I use the "U" only when welding verical up, otherwise I usually weld so hot and fast if I hesitate it burns through. Guess that comes from years of production welding....BTW I once asked my plant manager "So what do you want a real good weld or a real fast weld? You can guess what his answer was, a real good weld real fast! Took about 2 years for me to be able to do it.

rcoulas
01-02-2006, 08:33 PM
The way you weave the wire is mostly up to you. with thin material say smaller than 1/4 with a larger mig I don't weave just straight bead. A U pattern is Ok I always use a J pattern, J forward then a backward on the next one ect. Or you could use half moons.
The triangle pattern for vertical welds as treeplanter pointed out works very well.
Hope this helps.

Randy

MadMax
01-02-2006, 08:48 PM
I focused on certain techniques so much that I lost the main point of the techniques, and thats to ensure a sound weld..

I was so stuck on a pattern, that I wouldn't realize the toe of the weld wasn't tied in, or that I was getting monster welds. Now I just focus on the actual weld, and do what I have to do to make it a good weld, which almost always makes a good looking weld. It's good to know all of the techniques, and how to adjust mid weld ya know?

As far as the push/pulling..I always push with MIG, and pull with FCAW. On vertical up with stick I usually push it. On a normal horizontal fillet, I'll pull the electrode..I try to avoid stick as a whole, but it's part of the competition, and it doesn't hurt to know..So I still have lot's to learn about SMAW...

-Max.

Pile Buck
01-03-2006, 08:15 AM
I agree, with donít get to hung up on one certain technique. Find what works best for you with each process, but remember sooner or later youíll figure out there are no rules. Especially when dealing with arc blow. Youíll find when fabing projects with lots of corners, angles, or a bazillion other things, there is always something that pops up to break the rules! ;)

hankj
01-03-2006, 01:23 PM
aj,

I'm in the same boat with Max and Carl. Any vertical weld I make is up if it can be done like that, and I push it with MIG or stick. I ain't tried an out-of-position TIG weld yet - still working on the melt and stick part!

MIG (flat): I drag it unless I'm welding aluminum, then I push it to make sure the shileding gas is in front of the arc and keeping the puddle covered. I like to run stringers on thinner stock, use a "whip" with a pause at the toes on thicker joints.

Stick (flat): I run from nearly vertical to a drag with the rod, depending on the joint. I don't do well pushing a stick in the flat position - I'm always burying the rod tip. If I use motion, it's usually a "Z".

I always use my left hand with an up/down motion on the ****tail shaker..... :rolleyes:

Hank

MadMax
01-03-2006, 03:41 PM
I always use my left hand with an up/down motion on the ****tail shaker..... :rolleyes:

Hank

Hank, there just comes a point when you don't share the bedroom stories...




Burn on! :D

-Max

ajpulley
01-03-2006, 10:38 PM
Ok guys, hold up a minute. I read about pushing and pulling. But, what I was asking was the "U" thing, or the "J" thing, or whatever you call it. THAT's what I am inquiring about.

Oh, and thanks Meach and Rcoulas

hankj
01-03-2006, 10:52 PM
aj,

Like Carl (Pile Buck) said, it's a "machs nix" thing. Not really important. Find the bead profile you like, and go with it.

Hank

ajpulley
01-04-2006, 08:45 PM
Ok, thanks everyone for your answers. I'll experament and see what works best.

grinderman
01-08-2006, 02:44 PM
Hi , The pulling technique seems to work for me if welding heavy material I think because your welding away from all that heat and your hand stays alot cooler to make longer welds.Also I think you save alot of tips,cones by moving away from the heat.And one other thing in my opinion you can watch your puddle better.

fyoung
01-17-2006, 08:03 AM
Hank, there just comes a point when you don't share the bedroom stories...
Burn on! :D -Max

Can you explain this..i must have missed something in *** ed *LOL*

MadMax
01-17-2006, 10:50 AM
Can you explain this..i must have missed something in *** ed *LOL*

Haha oh man. I just read over what he said and realized he really meant what he said about mixing drinks...Nebbbbbbermind :D Just the dirty minded teenager in me coming out for a second, haha.

-Max.